Top Ten ODI cricketers of All Time

[Zinzan]

Dhoni and bevan don't have many hundreds overall, let alone in particular set of countries. Dhoni has an excellent record in ODIs abroad . Hundreds at no. 6 are pretty rare anyway and purely looking at the number of tons is a poor metric.

Dhoni getting no centuries outside Asia tells us about as much about his batting as Bevan getting one solitary ton in Asia does. It's meaningless.

Have to disagree about it being meaningless since we're not discussing whether he's good, we're discussing the top 10 players of all-time.

Batsmen have been scoring lots of hundreds from numbers 5-7 in the batting line up in last 10-15 years. Dhoni himself has managed 10 hundreds in 181 matches in Asia, not a small amount, while he's scored zero hundreds in 105 matches outside of Asia, I'd say that's quite a significant, noticeable & maeningful difference.

Once again, if I was picking an AT world XI to be played somewhere in Asia, Dhoni's the keeper, but if I wanted someone for any allround conditions, It's Gilly for me every time.

 

[OverratedSanity]

If you want to pick Bevan above Dhoni on the basis of the overseas record, go ahead. But Gilchrist's record is even worse than Dhoni's, so I don't get it.

 

[Zinzan]

If you want to pick Bevan above Dhoni on the basis of the overseas record, go ahead. But Gilchrist's record is even worse than Dhoni's, so I don't get it.

Although Bevan and Dhoni are similar in the position they batted, both being excellent run-chases & both having very high proportions of not outs which does inflate their averages (not that it's their fault, but it's a factor), I'm pitting keeper vs. keeper here, and Gilchrist is frankly is the first opener on my sheet for a world XI. Not only for his bossing the WC finals in '99 & '07 and virtually winning the '07 himself, but no other ODI opener I can think of put fear into opposition bowlers as much as Gilchrist, not even Jayasuriya imo.

 

[OverratedSanity]

To highlight why tons scored for guys like Dhoni and began is a poor metric, check this out :

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Thats right, in the entire history of odi cricket, only 3 Asian batsmen have scored even 1 hundred outside Asia from number 6 or lower.

 

[Zinzan]

To highlight why tons scored for guys like Dhoni and began is a poor metric, check this out :

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Thats right, in the entire history of odi cricket, only 3 Asian batsmen have scored even 1 hundred outside Asia from number 6 or lower.

Firstly that query is a little misleading since Dhoni batted more than 100 innings at 5 or above in the batting lineup, even if 6 was his most frequent.

However even granting you that he did play all innings at no. 6 or below, I can't see why that stat is a point in Dhoni's favour. It merely shows very few Asian batsmen batting 6 or lower have scored many 100s outside of Asia.

 

[TheJediBrah]

To highlight why tons scored for guys like Dhoni and began is a poor metric, check this out :

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Thats right, in the entire history of odi cricket, only 3 Asian batsmen have scored even 1 hundred outside Asia from number 6 or lower.

That's not really a point in Dhoni's favour, more so a point against all Asian batsmen in general

 

[Daemon]

Asian top order batsmen try to take up more responsibility overseas and are usually too good to get dismissed early enough for the lower order to ton up.

 

[Red]

Asian top order batsmen try to take up more responsibility overseas and are usually too good to get dismissed early enough for the lower order to ton up.

Although you put the little emoticon at the end, you're probably right. In his career he's had some pretty good players in the top 5 - Sachin, Ganguly, Dravid, Rahane, Yuvraj, Kohli.

 

[rtramdas]

Someone on twitter pointed out an interesting statistics about Dhoni that I didn't actually know. Outside of Asia he scored zero ODI hundreds & in fact made zero international hundred any any form of cricket at all outside of Asia, which I almost found unbelievable. He averages 35 out of Asia across all formats.


I think on reflection, he deserves to be in any AT XI played in Asia, but just consolidates my view that Gilchrist is my AT great keeper in general & opener unless it's a specifically played in Asian conditions.

I don't know if Bevan was equally poor away from his comfort zone.

they say stats with out context is meaningless. And this is exactly one such stat. Dhoni, as we all know is a great player based on his ODI credentials, not tests.But even in tests an avg; of 38+ is still good for a WK & a no: 6 batsman.. Now coming to one dayers where he is a great player, we have to remember these things.
1. Dhoni is a 5th or 6th position player most of the time from which 100s are very difficult.And more importantly, roles of such players mainly is not to anchor inns , but to score as much & as quickly as possible in the end overs.But even with these odds against him, he has 4 knocks that can rival any comparatively slower 100+ knock from higher batting positions in alien conditions.
88* 95 5 1 92.63 6 not out 1 v Sri Lanka Brisbane 5 Feb 2008 ODI # 2672
84* 89 6 0 94.38 3 not out 1 v New Zealand Napier 3 Mar 2009 ODI # 2821
78* 71 6 3 109.85 6 not out 1 v England Lord's 11 Sep 2011 ODI # 3191
79* 73 6 3 108.21 5 not out 1 v New Zealand Hamilton 28 Jan 2014 ODI # 3465
All brilliant knocks with great str: rates and not out scores too.For me they are of much worth than a '100 out' of say 125 balls from much higher batting positions.

2. Dhoni is a renowned chaser & finisher.

3. He avg:s 50+ with great str: rate too.

4. He is a WK + great 'ODI+ t20' captain.

It is a combination all these that makes him a great limited overs player.

 

[honestbharani]

Although Bevan and Dhoni are similar in the position they batted, both being excellent run-chases & both having very high proportions of not outs which does inflate their averages (not that it's their fault, but it's a factor), I'm pitting keeper vs. keeper here, and Gilchrist is frankly is the first opener on my sheet for a world XI. Not only for his bossing the WC finals in '99 & '07 and virtually winning the '07 himself, but no other ODI opener I can think of put fear into opposition bowlers as much as Gilchrist, not even Jayasuriya imo.

Its just your perception. I don give a damn on who performed in finals coz they are not the only KO games and I know his record in overall KO games ain't so great. Jayasuriya pioneered and basically set the template for the kind of opener that Gilly went on to become. Do not forget that Australia only used Gilly that way coz Jayasuriya showed it was possible. I rate Jayasuriya as a better batsman and a better package player than Gilly in ODIs, easily.

 

[honestbharani]

Have to disagree about it being meaningless since we're not discussing whether he's good, we're discussing the top 10 players of all-time.

Batsmen have been scoring lots of hundreds from numbers 5-7 in the batting line up in last 10-15 years. Dhoni himself has managed 10 hundreds in 181 matches in Asia, not a small amount, while he's scored zero hundreds in 105 matches outside of Asia, I'd say that's quite a significant, noticeable & maeningful difference.

Once again, if I was picking an AT world XI to be played somewhere in Asia, Dhoni's the keeper, but if I wanted someone for any allround conditions, It's Gilly for me every time.

What does this even mean, since you basically rule out 2 of the 4 broad types of conditions a player can face in ODI cricket?

 

[Daemon]

Although you put the little emoticon at the end, you're probably right. In his career he's had some pretty good players in the top 5 - Sachin, Ganguly, Dravid, Rahane, Yuvraj, Kohli.

Rohit maybe but definitely not Rahane.

 

[Zinzan]

What does this even mean, since you basically rule out 2 of the 4 broad types of conditions a player can face in ODI cricket?

Aye? It means what it says. All-round overall = an XI for all conditions, as distinct from an XI for SC conditions. Not like you HB, it's fairly clear.

 

[Zinzan]

Its just your perception. I don give a damn on who performed in finals coz they are not the only KO games and I know his record in overall KO games ain't so great. Jayasuriya pioneered and basically set the template for the kind of opener that Gilly went on to become. Do not forget that Australia only used Gilly that way coz Jayasuriya showed it was possible. I rate Jayasuriya as a better batsman and a better package player than Gilly in ODIs, easily.

Well yeah, this conversation is old ground now, some of us do think with others things even, performances in the highest possible pressure situation does count for a lot, & while there have been tri-tournaments & ICC championships etc, World Cup finals are where it's at.

Now to Jayasuriya, you don't need to convince about him, He's usually Gilly's partner in my ODI XIs, I've jumped between he,Anwar (personal fav) & Tendulkar over time to partner Gilly, & still jump around on it.

 

[harsh.ag]

Zinzan, as an ODI bat, Gilly or Ponting?

 

[honestbharani]

Well yeah, this conversation is old ground now, some of us do think with others things even, performances in the highest possible pressure situation does count for a lot, & while there have been tri-tournaments & ICC championships etc, World Cup finals are where it's at.

Now to Jayasuriya, you don't need to convince about him, He's usually Gilly's partner in my ODI XIs, I've jumped between he,Anwar (personal fav) & Tendulkar over time to partner Gilly, & still jump around on it.

FTR, it does not always mean only the WC finals and I would argue even if it did, Gilly did nothing to make the 1999 WC performance an highlight. The work was done by Warne and McGrath. Gilchrist/Bevan Vs Jayasuriya/Dhoni is a bit of a no brainer because Jayasuriya is better than Gilly and Dhoni is, at the very least, extremely comparable to Bevan. And I would argue that as far as ODIs go, Dhoni's keeping skills are actually better than Gilly's as MSD excels in keeping to spinners with no obvious weakness in his keeping to the seamers. Gilchrist revolutionized the role of the wicket keeper in test matches but in ODIs, he is neither revolutionary, nor as good as you folks make him out to be. I can see why some may go for Bevan/Gilly but to start to cite contextless stats as some sot of reason is really silly, Z. If you state its a personal preference, it is fine. But the rest of the "highest possible pressure" etc is just BS and you know it.

 

[Zinzan]

FTR, it does not always mean only the WC finals and I would argue even if it did, Gilly did nothing to make the 1999 WC performance an highlight. The work was done by Warne and McGrath. Gilchrist/Bevan Vs Jayasuriya/Dhoni is a bit of a no brainer because Jayasuriya is better than Gilly and Dhoni is, at the very least, extremely comparable to Bevan. And I would argue that as far as ODIs go, Dhoni's keeping skills are actually better than Gilly's as MSD excels in keeping to spinners with no obvious weakness in his keeping to the seamers. Gilchrist revolutionized the role of the wicket keeper in test matches but in ODIs, he is neither revolutionary, nor as good as you folks make him out to be. I can see why some may go for Bevan/Gilly but to start to cite contextless stats as some sot of reason is really silly, Z. If you state its a personal preference, it is fine. But the rest of the "highest possible pressure" etc is just BS and you know it.

We'll have to keep disagreeing. The WC final is the highest pinnacle in ODI cricket by some margin for those lucky enough to get a shot. I say highest 'possible pressure situation', not to suggest it's a always going to be a thriller with 12 needed from the last over or something. I mean that everyone is naturally more on edge in a WC final than any other ODI, it comes with the territory.

 

[Zinzan]

Zinzan, as an ODI bat, Gilly or Ponting?

That's a tough one because they are very different ODI batsmen. Gilly is the perfect modern ODI opener. Amazing eye & puts genuine fear into opposition bowlers & steals the 50 games from you so damn quickly. Ponting on the other hand is more of a surgeon coming in at number 3.

 

[srbhkshk]

Now to Jayasuriya, you don't need to convince about him, He's usually Gilly's partner in my ODI XIs, I've jumped between he,Anwar (personal fav) & Tendulkar over time to partner Gilly, & still jump around on it.

Tendulkar -> Avg : 48.29 || S/R : 88.05
Jayasuriya -> Avg : 34.61 || S/R : 92.48
Gilly -> Avg : 36.50 || S/R : 98.02
Anwar -> Avg : 39.98 || S/R : 79.93
Ganguly -> Avg : 41.57 || S/R : 73.59
Sehwag -> Avg : 36.49 || S/R : 104.72
Gayle -> Avg : 39.12 || S/R : 85.94

Check this table and give me one good reason why Gilly/Jaya/Anwar would be over Tendulkar/Sehwag as openers.

 

[Zinzan]

Tendulkar -> Avg : 48.29 || S/R : 88.05
Jayasuriya -> Avg : 34.61 || S/R : 92.48
Gilly -> Avg : 36.50 || S/R : 98.02
Anwar -> Avg : 39.98 || S/R : 79.93
Ganguly -> Avg : 41.57 || S/R : 73.59
Sehwag -> Avg : 36.49 || S/R : 104.72
Gayle -> Avg : 39.12 || S/R : 85.94

Check this table and give me one good reason why Gilly/Jaya/Anwar would be over Tendulkar/Sehwag as openers.

Because cricket isn't played on a spreadsheet.

There's more to it than that.

Tendulkar is close, Sehwag isn't.