Top Ten ODI cricketers of All Time

[Victor Ian]

What conversation? I made my own conversation about Poo specs and how everyone is missing out on the Jones love. It was not specifically about strike rates, or averages, or Jones for that matter. For the record, if you think I was joining in on the conversation you were talking about, there are a heap of players today striking at about 100.

This article says what I just tried to say Stats from the Past: The best ODI batsmen from across eras | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

I still don't like how they include beginnings and endings of careers (where players legacies are tarnished) but it serves the point. Bevan and Dhoni are NO specialists and so their rankings should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Victor Ian]

For 3 years.

Where do you get 3 from? 1990-1985 is 5 years, and 6 when you realise i looked at 1 jan 1985 to 31 dec 1990

 

[rtramdas]

I'm not really disputing anyone's teams. They are all exceptional and would be a treat to watch. I'm just disappointed that so many include Viv yet forget to include the only player who was as good* as the Viv in the same era.

*Yeah I know, Viv pre-Jones was better than Viv during-Jones. But during Jones' time, he was about 5 runs better than his next peer. Today there are about 5 or 6 players all within a run of each other.

Jones was brilliant one day batsman in his own right. but when best ten is selected some apparently brilliant players gets omitted. Jones is one of them

 

[Shri]

This is one of the reasons why MSD is up there as an ODI legend:

Final: India v Sri Lanka at Port of Spain, Jul 11, 2013 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Victor Ian]

Dhoni is a dead set legend, but fmd if he doesn't get bigged up beyond his players. The reason you all think he is so great is because he is the guy who is mid order, which by way of being at the very average amount of batsman out in an innings is the guy who gets to hit the winning runs most often. A batsman, every batsman, only has so many balls before they are out - call it their appetite if you will. if Dhoni opened he would be a ****ing idiot who always gets out, though probably having done a Gilly like job. One could argue, and I used to think this of Bevan, that Dhoni is a douchebag who times things to the last minute so that he HAS to hit big runs of a few balls - win or lose, rather than having done it five overs earlier and made everyone take it easy. Dhoni is awesome, but keep it in perspective. How many times has India lost when Dhoni didn't do it because he left the other batsman no time?

@rtramdas. Sure, we are talking about the greatest ever. Leave Jones out at your own peril. Keep wearing the specs.

 

[Furball]

There was a period during 2008 and 2009 where Dhoni being not out chasing meant India won. Dhoni as an ODI batsman is amazing.

 

[Shri]

How many times has India lost when Dhoni didn't do it because he left the other batsman no time?

Way less than we won.

if Dhoni opened he would be a ****ing idiot who always gets out, though probably having done a Gilly like job.

If McGrath were a spin bowler, he wouldn't have played test cricket. Oh and are you also calling Gilly stupid? Relax man.

One could argue, and I used to think this of Bevan, that Dhoni is a douchebag who times things to the last minute so that he HAS to hit big runs of a few balls - win or lose, rather than having done it five overs earlier and made everyone take it easy.

Its called confidence. He backed himself to not lose his nerve when it was him against a guy bowling the last over and more often than not, he walked away after the knockout. It worked for him most times so why fix a method that wasn't broken?

 

[Victor Ian]

There was a period during 2008 and 2009 where Dhoni being not out chasing meant India won. Dhoni as an ODI batsman is amazing.

That sounds pretty great, but is it? His not out merely reflects how possible the run chase was. Credit to him that he chased hard and got out instead of taking batting practice when the target is improbable.

 

[Victor Ian]

If I were picking an all time 11, I would not have a spot for Dhoni, nor Bevan, or any other finisher. With Viv, Tendulkar, Ponting, Jones, Kholi, DeVilliers and some other opener I would not need a finisher. It seem odd that a team puts its best (or 2nd) best batsman mid order. All those guys I just mentioned would finish innings off better than so called finishers because they are better batsman. Think about it - the finishing argument is bogus.

 

[Red]

batsman between 84-94 who had a superior strike rate to jones. (minimum 30 innings)

sir viv
saeed anwar
saleem malik
ijaz ahmed
aravinda de silva
mark waugh
graeme hick
sachin tendulkar
ranatunga
neil fairbrother
alan lamb
alan border
inzamam
gus logie
steve waugh
imran khan
martin crowe
azharuddin

Come on mate, at least be reasonable. Most of these blokes you are mentioning averaged 5-10 runs less than Dean Jones. And a lot of them played in the second half of Jones' career.

I'll be the first to admit there's a bunch of very good ODI batsmen in your list, but you're being a bit disingenuous putting in guys like Logie, Imran, Border, Waugh, Malik, DeSilva, Ijaz who all averaged in the 20s or low 30s compared to Jones' 44.

Anyway, I'm not sure what we're arguing about. Pretty much everyone with a bit of sense acknowledges that Jones was a groundbreaking ODI batsman in a number of facets. Well ahead of the average SR of his time, at an average significantly higher than most other good batsman of his era.

 

[Red]

If I were picking an all time 11, I would not have a spot for Dhoni, nor Bevan, or any other finisher. With Viv, Tendulkar, Ponting, Jones, Kholi, DeVilliers and some other opener I would not need a finisher. It seem odd that a team puts its best (or 2nd) best batsman mid order. All those guys I just mentioned would finish innings off better than so called finishers because they are better batsman. Think about it - the finishing argument is bogus.

Exactly. Guys like Bevan get so overrated with this finishing crap. And they have an inflated average due to batting at 6 or 7 and being not out a lot. Working out average simply by dividing runs by innings is a much better way to work out who is a good ODI batsman. Ponting averages 37 doing this, while Bevan averages 35.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Nonsense. Guys like Bevan, Dhoni, hussey aren't rated highly just because of a higher average but because they play a role which very few can. Without guys like them, the platform set by Ponting, Tendulkar etc. would go to waste. They've totally changed how run chases are viewed.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Also, most sensible people view Dhoni/Bevan etc as a separate category. You certainly won't hear me say that Dhoni is a "better" odi batsman than Ponting just because he averages more. It's arguable that they're more valuable cricketers though, because few can do what they can.

 

[Zinzan]

If I were picking an all time 11, I would not have a spot for Dhoni, nor Bevan, or any other finisher. With Viv, Tendulkar, Ponting, Jones, Kholi, DeVilliers and some other opener I would not need a finisher. It seem odd that a team puts its best (or 2nd) best batsman mid order. All those guys I just mentioned would finish innings off better than so called finishers because they are better batsman. Think about it - the finishing argument is bogus.

I rate both Dhoni and Bevan, but you actually have a decent point. In a team full of rock-stars like Kohli, Viv, & AB, and with strong hitters like Kapil, Flintoff, Kluesener or Symonds, you probably don't need those 'not-out' finishes playing calculated relatively low risk at the end.

 

[Furball]

Thing with Dhoni is that (unless his record has had a massive downturn) he also performs when he decides to promote himself up the order. I know at one point he averaged 80 at 3 and 60 odd at 4. So it's not just in chases you can count on Dhoni to nervelessly take you home, if you needed to smash it in the final 10 when batting first then you could send Dhoni in and he'd do a job.

 

[marc71178]

Dear god, calling Bevan overrated for ending up not out often.

 

[Furball]

Exactly. Guys like Bevan get so overrated with this finishing crap. And they have an inflated average due to batting at 6 or 7 and being not out a lot. Working out average simply by dividing runs by innings is a much better way to work out who is a good ODI batsman. Ponting averages 37 doing this, while Bevan averages 35.

Being not out kind of matters when you're a finisher though. Bevan's job is to finish the innings off, whether that's smashing the last few overs to set a target, rebuliding an innings to guide his team to a target or doing what needs to be done to successfully chase a target. Criticising him for staying not out is like criticising McGrath for bolstering his average by taking wickets.

 

[Furball]

I rate both Dhoni and Bevan, but you actually have a decent point. In a team full of rock-stars like Kohli, Viv, & AB, and with strong hitters like Kapil, Flintoff, Kluesener or Symonds, you probably don't need those 'not-out' finishes playing calculated relatively low risk at the end.

Border doesn't belong in such company.

 

[Red]

Dear god, calling Bevan overrated for ending up not out often.

That wasn't my point, at all. My point was his average is over-inflated compared to someone like Ponting's because of the amount of not outs he had. A benefit of batting down the order, and of course not going out is a good thing, but not always in ODIs.

I've heard so many people look at Bevan's average and hear people talk about him being the "finisher" and conclude that he is the greatest or close to the greatest ODI batsman of all time.

He's far from it. I wouldn't have him in my top ten, and TBH perhaps not even in my top twenty.

 

[Red]

Being not out kind of matters when you're a finisher though. Bevan's job is to finish the innings off, whether that's smashing the last few overs to set a target, rebuliding an innings to guide his team to a target or doing what needs to be done to successfully chase a target. Criticising him for staying not out is like criticising McGrath for bolstering his average by taking wickets.

Wasn't criticising him for his not outs, was criticising what I think is an overestimation of how good he was by some people due to the fact that his ODI avg was 54.

Anyway, if you want someone to do that job (bat 6, finish the match), I'd choose Hussey any day. Far superior batsman.