The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[jimmy101]

Here's a crazy idea...

Since one day cricket was played as back as the the 60's (in England at least), what if an ODI world cup existed earlier than 1975?

Ignoring all the political issues of the day (South Africa we're looking at you), I've come up with this, dodgy, list of winners.

1971

South Africa most likely victorious, probably defeating Illingworth's England in a tense final. The Pollocks, Richards & Procky running riot the whole time. I feel that both Pakistan (with Asif, Mushtaq, Zaheer, Sarfraz & the likes) and India (MAK Pataudi + spin quartet) would have been really successful too, perhaps making the semis. Australia & the West Indies hard to ignore, but these teams weren't at their absolute strongest in '71.

1967

I'm Imagining England would probably get in up this one, what with Cowdrey, Boycs, Graveney, Barrington & D'olly being too much for everyone to handle, plus Snow scaring everyone to death with the new ball. Bill Lawry's Australia, a fierce but not quite world-conquering South Africa & the ever aggressive West Indies the most likely candidates for losing finalists.

1963

Really tough this one, but I think with Sobers, Kanhai, Hall & Griffith all pretty much at their peak I think WI would take this one out. At the same time though I could see both Australia & England taking the cup too. Pakistan a dark horse. Colin Bland would be the Jonty Rhodes of the tournament.

What are your thoughts?

 

[harsh.ag]

Nice write up.

'67 would not be England though. Between the Windies and Saffers.

 

[Zinzan]

Holding was 1.91cm according to Wikipedia.

I'm one of those "Garner is better than Holding" guys.

 

[jimmy101]

Nice write up.

'67 would not be England though. Between the Windies and Saffers.

I dunno, England also had Dexter, Close, Underwood, Edrich, Higgs & Alan Knott in '67. Not writing off SA, WI, or even Aus, for that matter. Probably one of the most competitive eras of cricket, at least amongst those four nations.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Barrington wouldn't have been much of an one day bat.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Holding was 1.91cm according to Wikipedia.

I never trust Wikipedia too implicitly. 1.91cm is about three quarters of an inch, which seems improbable.

 

[thierry henry]

This one's for TH

Short XI - Batsmen/WK =/< 5'8 (1.73 m), Bowlers =/<5'11 (1.80m)

Vs.

Tall XI - Batsmen/WK =/> 6'1 (1.85 m), Bowlers =/>6'3 (1.91m)

Short XI

Gavaskar
Warner
Bradman
Tendulkar
Lara
Shakib
Knott+
Marshall
Steyn
Trueman
Murali


Tall XI

Smith
Hayden
Pietersen
G Pollock
Kallis
Inzamam
Gilchrist+
Vettori
Akram
Ambrose
McGrath

Who wins & what's a good 'inbetweens' XI?

Shakib is listed 5'9" and that looks about right to me, you trying to sneak him in under the bowler qualifications? Doesn't feel right, he's not even really short for a Bangladesh player.

Also I seriously question whether Kallis was the listed 6'2" or even 6'1", and Akram is listed 6'2" which I think is quite accurate and therefore disqualifies him.

But hey, I appreciate the effort :-P

 

[Zinzan]

Shakib is listed 5'9" and that looks about right to me, you trying to sneak him in under the bowler qualifications? Doesn't feel right, he's not even really short for a Bangladesh player.

Also I seriously question whether Kallis was the listed 6'2" or even 6'1", and Akram is listed 6'2" which I think is quite accurate and therefore disqualifies him.

But hey, I appreciate the effort :-P

I should have specified that ARs like Shakib & Kallis slipped under the respective batting criteria, rather than bowling, & since Shakib is now in dispute, I'll replace him with Jayasuriya as the AR at 6 for the shorts.

I've seen Kallis reported at various heights, and 6'1 seems to be the most consistent.

On Akram, perhaps I'm a bit generous listing him at 6'3, so Joel Garner can take his spot too.

 

[Zinzan]

I think this photo is a good one in favour for Kallis being 6'1. Mark Boucher is apparently 5'10 (1.78) & Graeme Smith at least 6'3, and the gap between Kallis and Smith looks a lot closer than Kallis and Boucher and doesn't look anymore than 2 inches for mine.

 

[Zinzan]

And this one

 

[Burgey]

Kallis selfishly refusing to disclose his true height. Typical.

 

[thierry henry]

tbh that top photo is mostly just good evidence of Boucher being less than 5'10". But 6'1" is probably a good guess for Kallis.

 

[harsh.ag]

South Africa 2nd XI

Smith
Kirsten
Amla
Taylor
Cullinan
Faulkner
QdK +
Procter
Philander
Le Roux/van der Bijl/Rabada
Pollock, Peter

 

[Zinzan]

South Africa 2nd XI

Smith
Kirsten
Amla
Taylor
Cullinan
Faulkner
QdK +
Procter
Philander
Le Roux/van der Bijl/Rabada
Pollock, Peter

Am I correct in deducing your 1st XI is?

Richards
Mitchell
Kallis
G Pollock
Nourse
AB+
S Pollock
Tayfield
Steyn
Donald
Adcock

 

[harsh.ag]

Am I correct in deducing your 1st XI is?

Richards
Mitchell
Kallis
G Pollock
Nourse
AB+
S Pollock
Tayfield
Steyn
Donald
Adcock

Forgot about Adcock completely actually. First XI is the above but with Waite as keeper at 7. No Adcock. So Adcock would be in the second XI ahead of the three undecideds.

 

[harsh.ag]

South Africa 2nd XI

Smith
Kirsten
Amla
Taylor
Cullinan
Faulkner
QdK +
Procter
Philander
Pollock, Peter
Adcock

 

[Zinzan]

Forgot about Adcock completely actually. First XI is the above but with Waite as keeper at 7. No Adcock. So Adcock would be in the second XI ahead of the three undecideds.

I like that AB keeping allows you the luxury of playing that specialist 4th seamer to compliment Kallis and the spinner.

 

[harsh.ag]

I like that AB keeping allows you the luxury of playing that specialist 4th seamer to compliment Kallis and the spinner.

It would be nice, but then AB keeping should mean Faulkner playing, since he is a good batsman and provides bowling variety. If you want a specialist 4th seamer, Procter is perhaps the best bet since he can bat some.

 

[Zinzan]

It would be nice, but then AB keeping should mean Faulkner playing, since he is a good batsman and provides bowling variety. If you want a specialist 4th seamer, Procter is perhaps the best bet since he can bat some.

Yeah, either way, Kaulkner, Procter or Adcock would all be unlucky to miss out for different reasons.

 

[bagapath]

ODI XI with 6 WK and 5 all rounders who could bat and bowl 10 overs

Gilchrist +
McCullum
Sangakara
Kallis
A.Flower
AB DeVilliers
Dhoni *
Shakib
Imran
Flintoff
Kapil