Matthew Wade

[Prince EWS]

Is it a problem because the FC teams in Oz are suddenly looking for their own batsmen who can keep than trying to develop keepers who can become better batsmen? Or is it only a short form cricket problem?

It's a mix of a lot of different issues really.

I think the one you'd best relate to is very similar with the problem India are finding their with their lower middle order ODI batting spots -- all the good domestic batsmen bat in the top order domestically and aren't suited to the role. It's often been the case that keepers with batting talent have found themselves in the top order of OD domestic teams in Australia and not developed the skills to come in at #7. Tim Paine not fitting this team is a good example but even Wade himself struggled in ODIs originally because he'd made all his List A runs batting 1-3 and had to adjust his game. Haddin only ever really made ODI runs when he opened as well.

I also think it's a risk you run with wicket keepers and spinners by only having six domestic teams. If you have a supreme talent like Gilchrist or Warne come through then it's not a problem, but when you're between such players and looking for someone to do a job, and there are only six players who do anything like that job professionally in the country, sometimes there just won't be one suited to the precise role you're looking for because domestic balances or imperfect domestic selectors shut the ideal candidate out. Dan mentioned that Crosthwaite might have been a good fit but he's ended up not even playing domestic cricket because he just didn't suit the exact balance any of the domestic teams wanted.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah but if that is the case and given Australia's riches with bowling batters and batting bowlers (Adam Hollioke's term), I think they should just pick the best keeper and bat him at 9 after Faulkner.

 

[Furball]

Surely with Australia's ODI batting strength you can afford a proper keeper to bat 8?

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Yeah I'm deffo coming around on the Nev as a specialist keeper down the order idea. Especially when we have an attack with Starc and/or Pattinson in it.

 

[Dan]

Surely with Australia's ODI batting strength you can afford a proper keeper to bat 8?

I would consider Nevill for it, but I think Australia is far better served by him spending the ODI and T20 parts of summers/tours playing FC or County cricket to keep up his Test form, rather than being a non-batting 'keeper in the ODI team.

Other than that you've got Hartley, who is genuinely one of the worst limited overs batsmen I've ever come across (a classical purveyor of the match-losing 70), or Tim "I'm not FC standard" Ludeman to play that role. So I'd genuinely consider picking Crosthwaite out of grade at this point, but he isn't even bloody 'keeping these days!

 

[Flem274*]

i don't pay enough attention to the big bash to know the answer to this but how good is ben dunk with the gloves? given people are talking about hartley more than him im guessing the answer is not good?

chuck a keeper at 8 and accept the crap average if they're not suited to the position. strike rate is more important at #8 anyway.

 

[morgieb]

i don't pay enough attention to the big bash to know the answer to this but how good is ben dunk with the gloves? given people are talking about hartley more than him im guessing the answer is not good?

chuck a keeper at 8 and accept the crap average if they're not suited to the position. strike rate is more important at #8 anyway.

At this point he's basically a specialist batsman. Paine does the keeping.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Nah, Paine's been dropped for this game hasn't he? Or has someone else taken the gloves?

 

[Prince EWS]

Nah, Paine's been dropped for this game hasn't he? Or has someone else taken the gloves?

Triffitt kept in their last couple of games before the break.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Ah yeah that's right.

 

[honestbharani]

Tbh, it is very fascinating reading this thread. So many times many fans harp on about how good Aussie FC system is coz of just having 6 teams but when a situation like this comes up, you kinda see why it is tougher to fill certain roles when you have lesser teams in the domestic set up. Very good comparison with India's struggle to find hitters. It is practically the same issue.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah there are definitely pros and cons of only having six teams. I think it's better for developing batsmen and fast bowlers because you still end up with lots of them playing professional cricket to choose from, but each team is usually picking either one no specialist spinners for each match and obviously exactly one wicket keeper. The issue really popped up post-Warne when there was barely any difference in quality between whoever the Test spinner was for a given game and some of the players who were just missing out on domestic spots. Beer and Hauritz were both picked based on what they'd done in (non-FC) club cricket as much as anything else. If you've only got six teams you definitely rely on the domestic selectors and scouts actually getting it right a lot more.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah, but the Warne replacement was an exception though. I think, the LO cricket follows much more of a template and structure than tests and that is why finding players to fill roles is so crucial to be successful in those formats for any team, unless you are gifted with a bunch of extraordinarily adaptable players. Year by year, T20s and ODs are becoming more and more like other sports where it is possible to coach and formulate plans from the outside just as efficiently as you can from inside the field. This is less of an issue in tests which is why I feel Australia have been such a strong test side over the years I have watched cricket. The competition does get them prepared for the higher level better than the systems in India or England does for their players. But for LO cricket, it can definitely be an issue esp. now with franchises playing domestic T20 where they care more about them winning or losing than developing players and talent pool for the national team.

 

[vic_orthdox]

If the bloke never had to worry about trying to improve his substandard keeping, he would have played Tests as a specialist batsman. No-one will ever be able to convince me otherwise.

 

[cnerd123]

I like how he did this literally three weeks after Howe had to admit he was wrong on the podcast for picking him in the Most Improved Players in 2016 XI.

WAG

 

[Howe_zat]

I like how he did this literally three weeks after Howe had to admit he was wrong on the podcast for picking him in the Most Improved Players in 2016 XI.

WAG

Your memory of that conversation is remarkably poor.

 

[adub]

If the bloke never had to worry about trying to improve his substandard keeping, he would have played Tests as a specialist batsman. No-one will ever be able to convince me otherwise.

Wouldn't try to. Has the game to average low 40s at least and that would have made him a fixture in the top 6 for the last 3 or 4 years.

 

[slippy888]

Australias one day captain i see the loons are running Australian cricket, Wade is one of Australias worst keeper batsman in the last 20 years and he should never been given role has a prestige of being captain on national team.

 

[TNT]

Congratulations to Wade, only a idiot would be upset that he is leading the Australian team. You would have to be stupid if you didnt respect him as a player. Not recognising his abilities would only show how much someone doesent understand cricket.

 

[Gnske]

Wade is one of Australias worst keeper batsman in the last 20 years and he should never been given role has a prestige of being captain on national team.

According to the New England Journal of Glenn Maxwell no doubt.