***Official*** Pakistan in Australia 2016/17

[Fuller Pilch]

I like Dan Vettori immensely.

But the best you could say for Dan is that if he'd been Australian he might have at best been one of the roll call of spinners tried and discarded post Warne.

Nah, he would have been the allrounder Australia were looking for post-2005 Ashes; better test batsman than Watto and Freddy Flintoff and would've done well supporting an excellent pace attack (Vettori's average is considerably better in games when Shane Bond played).

*Obviously they were FAR FAR better ODI batsmen

 

[TheJediBrah]

Nah, he would have been the allrounder Australia were looking for post-2005 Ashes; better test batsman than Watto and Freddy Flintoff and would've done well supporting an excellent pace attack (Vettori's average is considerably better in games when Shane Bond played).

lol

in all seriousness wouldn't have been surprised if he would have played for a few years post-Warne/MacGill if he could maintain a batting average >30

 

[Fuller Pilch]

lol

in all seriousness wouldn't have been surprised if he would have played for a few years post-Warne/MacGill if he could maintain a batting average >30

He averaged about 39/40 with the bat for the last 10 years of his career (2nd only to JK among allrounders at the time)

 

[morgieb]

He averaged about 39/40 with the bat for the last 10 years of his career (2nd only to JK among allrounders at the time)

TBF, that was mostly at 8. His average at 6/7 was a lot worse.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Played a fair bit against minnows too (Zim + Ban)

I don't think Watson ever played a single game against either of them

Not sure he's going to be displacing Flintoff or Watson as an all-rounder in anyone's view (except maybe the most one-eyed of Kiwis)

 

[Daemon]

Yeah unless you need the spin it's hard to see it happening.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Played a fair bit against minnows too (Zim + Ban)

I don't think Watson ever played a single game against either of them

Not sure he's going to be displacing Flintoff or Watson as an all-rounder in anyone's view (except maybe the most one-eyed of Kiwis)

No, Flintoff was a much better bowler, while DV was a better test batsman (although he struggled against express pace).

I don't think Freddie or Watto ever scored 140 on a 5th day Asian bunsen against Murali and Fatty Herath.

 

[Compton]

Watson and Flintoff were both better batsmen than DV.

 

[TheJediBrah]

No, Flintoff was a much better bowler, while DV was a better test batsman (although he struggled against express pace).

I don't think Freddie or Watto ever scored 140 on a 5th day Asian bunsen against Murali and Fatty Herath.

Of course mate

 

[Daemon]

I mean you could argue about Flintoff but Watson is streets ahead.

 

[ImpatientLime]

watson scored fewer test tons than both flintoff and vettori.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Watson scored fewer tons and averaged less than Shahid Afridi.

 

[Compton]

watson scored fewer test tons than both flintoff and vettori.

Jason Gillespie has more test double tons than Michael Vaughan. Doesn't change the fact Vaughan was the better batsman.

 

[ImpatientLime]

Jason Gillespie has more test double tons than Michael Vaughan. Doesn't change the fact Vaughan was the better batsman.

oooooooo yeah not remotely the same

 

[Compton]

oooooooo yeah not remotely the same

It's almost exactly the same.

I'm showing the pointlessness of taking one statistic of a batsman and drawing the inference that one is better than the other as a result.

Watson is a better batsman.

 

[Bijed]

For me, Watson was definitely a better test batsman than Flintoff or Vettori. He may not have been more useful, though. What I mean is, Watson averaged a fair bit more than the others whilst batting in the top 3 (so generally a tougher job) and you can extrapolate to suggest he could have had the same number of tons as the others if he'd played the same number of innings. However, you'd generally be more ok with people doing what Flintoff/Vettori did where they did (more so with Vettori) than though with a top-order bat being like Shane Watson.

 

[vcs]

Batting : Watson > Vettori = Flintoff
Bowling : Flintoff > Vettori >> Watson

It will be interesting to see if Ashwin can maintain his batting numbers in the same ballpark as Vettori and Flintoff as his career progresses.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Batting in the top 3 also provides you many more opportunities to get hundreds than players down at 6/7/8 like Flintoff/Afridi/Vettori. The fact that Watson still has fewer hundreds is absolutely pathetic.

 

[Compton]

Batting in the top 3 also provides you many more opportunities to get hundreds than players down at 6/7/8 like Flintoff/Afridi/Vettori. The fact that Watson still has fewer hundreds is absolutely pathetic.

Vetorri had 50-odd more innings than Watson. Comparing their raw number of 100s is nonsensical.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Vetorri had 50-odd more innings than Watson. Comparing their raw number of 100s is nonsensical.

Vettori started off as an 18 year-old bunny batting at 10. It is nonsensical to consider those innings.

From 2 January 2005 (Watson's test debut) and the year that Australia started the allrounder quest - post those Ashes, the figures are as follows:

Watson - 59 tests, av 35.19 (4 hundreds) (entire career)

Flintoff - 37 tests, av 30.49 (1 hundred)

Vettori - 54 tests, av 38.59 (5 hundreds)