***Official*** Pakistan in Australia 2016/17

[Zinzan]

@Zinzan, I meant spinners at any time period, outside the subcontinent.

I know you did, but I was interested in how spinners travel in Aust in recent times

 

[cnerd123]

Yeah but even his roundness averages 45 something outside the subcontinent.. Its just bloody hard.

Saqlain, kaneria, mushtaq, herath and kumble have all done all right.

Going back a bit, Bedi and Chandra were awesome.

It's the same for non-subcon spinners touring there

It's just hard for players to adapt to foreign conditions in general really. Spin is such a subtle art, you gotta have a proper understanding of how the conditions are and of you're own bowling in order to make the necessary adjustments.

 

[Spark]

Kumble has a great record. 3 wickets per innings and an SR of 57 is fantastic.

yeah it probably doesn't get talked about enough to be honest. it's a very impressive record in context.

 

[vcs]

Kumble has a great record. 3 wickets per innings and an SR of 57 is fantastic.

Also bowled to arguably the greatest ever Aussie batting lineup at the peak of their form.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Regarding the selection, thank **** that Maddinson is out, but not sure about the potential of Agar batting at 6 that journos seem to be courting . . . seems a step back in the wrong direction

very disappointed to see no Maxwell too (not that it's surprising mind you)

 

[vic_orthdox]

Vettori really fell away later in his career, I remember his early record in Aus was pretty good, sub 30 at the very least. I'm surprised Kumble did well in Australia, you'd take that record in the modern era, it just paled in comparison to what Warne was doing.

For NZ, Vettori in Australia (ie. not including World XI Test)

1997/98 - 6 wickets @ 51.66 (not included in the above)
2001/02 - 13 wickets @ 33.84
2004/05 - 10 wickets @ 34.10
2008/09 - 5 wickets @ 39.40
2011/12 - 2 wickets @ 44.10

Those two series in early 2000s he was excellent. Basically pre-back injury wasn't it?

 

[Blocky]

I think also looking at the pitch conditions in all non sub continent places,

Australia haven't really had that SCG suiting spinners pitch in years, and when they did, they had the best batting line up arguably that cricket had seen.
NZ, I don't think any wicket here detoriates to the point that spinners are lethal
South Africa occasionally gets a rank turner, but not frequently.
England is much the same as NZ.

I'm waiting for one of those four to buck the trend and start preparing turners at home, because until a team starts to do that, everyone will be hometown heroes and suck away, unless they're in conditions that are similar (i.e South Africa in Aus)

 

[Spark]

Regarding the selection, thank **** that Maddinson is out, but not sure about the potential of Agar batting at 6 that journos seem to be courting . . . seems a step back in the wrong direction

very disappointed to see no Maxwell too

yeah I'm reading about agar batting 6 too which, honestly, just pick Maxwell.

 

[Zinzan]

yeah it probably doesn't get talked about enough to be honest. it's a very impressive record in context.

Sydney really used to turn in most of his era from memory, and India always seemed to have a Test scheduled there.

 

[Blocky]

For NZ, Vettori in Australia (ie. not including World XI Test)

1997/98 - 6 wickets @ 51.66 (not included in the above)
2001/02 - 13 wickets @ 33.84
2004/05 - 10 wickets @ 34.10
2008/09 - 5 wickets @ 39.40
2011/12 - 2 wickets @ 44.10

Those two series in early 2000s he was excellent. Basically pre-back injury wasn't it?

Especially against the sides he had to play. I'd argue 2001/2002 Vettori would find bowling in Australia against this team a much easier prospect.

 

[Spark]

Sydney really used to turn in most of his era from memory, and India always seemed to have a Test scheduled there.

didn't help harbhajan, though.

 

[Blocky]

yeah I'm reading about agar batting 6 too which, honestly, just pick Maxwell.

What has Maxwell done to ever warrant selection though? Agar showed more character with the bat in his short stint in the Australian side and can't be any worse as a spinner with the ball, also offers up a left armer which would alternate well with Lyon.

 

[Kirkut]

Especially the way Smith and Clarke bowl the pace attack... to have put so many overs into Starc in the last few tests is ridiculous, it'll be a miracle if the guy doesn't break down in the next few matches.

I presume that's got to do with lack of faith in the spin attack.

 

[OverratedSanity]

It's the same for non-subcon spinners touring there

It's just hard for players to adapt to foreign conditions in general really. Spin is such a subtle art, you gotta have a proper understanding of how the conditions are and of you're own bowling in order to make the necessary adjustments.

Hm, wouldn't say it's quite the same. I think you'll find lots more overseas spinners doing comparatively decently in the SC. Australia's just a graveyard unless you're a wrist spinner. Unless you spin it big, you go to Australia to due.

 

[vic_orthdox]

It's the same for non-subcon spinners touring there

It's just hard for players to adapt to foreign conditions in general really. Spin is such a subtle art, you gotta have a proper understanding of how the conditions are and of you're own bowling in order to make the necessary adjustments.

Or you're picked for being best suited to your home country's conditions, not what will be best in the overseas conditions.

Early Mishra looked like he'd be awesome in Australia, but he bowls the ball "into" the wicket now to let the pitch do the work because it's so responsive.

 

[Zinzan]

Regarding the selection, thank **** that Maddinson is out, but not sure about the potential of Agar batting at 6 that journos seem to be courting . . . seems a step back in the wrong direction

very disappointed to see no Maxwell too (not that it's surprising mind you)

Sorry what am I missing with Maxwell? Is he really a genuine test spinner? The guy has 56 FC wickets in 46 matches & it's not like he's been setting the world on fire with his FC batting either... averaging south of 40 at FC level.

 

[Blocky]

didn't help harbhajan, though.

I'd argue that's more due to the Hayden/Langer/Ponting/Waugh/Waugh/Martyn/Gilchrist batting line up he had to face most of the time though, not really a weak link against spin in that team at all.

 

[Spark]

Sorry what am I missing with Maxwell? Is he really a genuine test spinner? The guy has 56 FC wickets in 46 matches & it's not like he's been setting the world on fire with his FC batting either... averaging south of 40 at FC level.

He's not, but if we want a spin bowling batting all rounder for the next 5 tests he's our best option unless they want to take a point on Agar/Turner

 

[vic_orthdox]

Sydney really used to turn in most of his era from memory, and India always seemed to have a Test scheduled there.

Don't think it was so much about the spin for Kumble either, which helped. Just a bloody smart bowler.

 

[TheJediBrah]

What has Maxwell done to ever warrant selection though? Agar showed more character with the bat in his short stint in the Australian side and can't be any worse as a spinner with the ball, also offers up a left armer which would alternate well with Lyon.

Yeah but with any luck Lyon will **** off soon and it will be SOK + Maxy for the next 25 years