***Official*** England in India 2016/17

[OverratedSanity]

The beginning of the tour (Vizag) was actually when he bowled well, though. Didn't look unfit there at all.

 

[Furball]

The beginning of the tour (Vizag) was actually when he bowled well, though. Didn't look unfit there at all.

He hasn't been eased back though. 3 back to back Tests and then missed the final Test because playing 4 back to back would have been too much. Any player in any sport who's returning from injury needs their workload managed so they can return to peak performance, Anderson didn't get that opportunity despite starting the series pretty well.

 

[honestbharani]

He was, at the beginning of the tour.

Wasn't he in the last legs of his rehabilitation program or whatever? That is not really injured is it? And it was just one test. Where he fielded as substitute for a while.

 

[honestbharani]

He hasn't been eased back though. 3 back to back Tests and then missed the final Test because playing 4 back to back would have been too much. Any player in any sport who's returning from injury needs their workload managed so they can return to peak performance, Anderson didn't get that opportunity despite starting the series pretty well.

Ah come on now.. this is just excuses territory. Lets do a list of all folks injured from India during the 2014 defeat too...

 

[Daemon]

He hasn't been eased back though. 3 back to back Tests and then missed the final Test because playing 4 back to back would have been too much. Any player in any sport who's returning from injury needs their workload managed so they can return to peak performance, Anderson didn't get that opportunity despite starting the series pretty well.

Cook saw to that in the 4th test pretty well

 

[Groundking]

I still do not like Butler coming in after Bairstow/Stokes. It looks lop-sided. It makes no sense whatsoever. I would probably play Jennings at 3 with a view to bumping him up to an opener when Cooky retires. Root is a better 4 anyway.

Cook *
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Butler
Bairstow +
Stokes
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

The top order looks a tad stodgy but that is what England need I suppose, particularly with all that attacking coming from Root onward. Injury pending, Wood can replace Rashid on a seaming wicket, or alternatively replace Anderson or Broad if they're knackered. If you are going to play Ali, and he seriously needs some nets against the short stuff, then you insert him before Butler and drop the extra bowler (Ali needs to be viewed as a batter who bowls part-time.)

That is the best line-up England can possibly produce at this moment in time I feel, until we can conjure up a decent spinner and replace Rashid.

This is ridiculous, Moeen is a FAR better bat than Buttler currently is and absolutely doesn't deserve to be dropped from the side having just had the 7th best year with the bat out of any year and player since coming into the side, and 4 of those above him are split between Cook and Root, with Ballance and Bairstow having 1 year each better than him (min 10 innings/year)

People are being ****ing stupid if they think he doesn't deserve a shot batting a 5 consistently for a year after the year he's had.

 

[S.Kennedy]

This is ridiculous, Moeen is a FAR better bat than Buttler currently is and absolutely doesn't deserve to be dropped from the side having just had the 7th best year with the bat out of any year and player since coming into the side, and 4 of those above him are split between Cook and Root, with Ballance and Bairstow having 1 year each better than him (min 10 innings/year)

People are being ****ing stupid if they think he doesn't deserve a shot batting a 5 consistently for a year after the year he's had.

I did say, ''If you are going to play Ali...then you insert him before Butler...''. You must have missed that?

 

[Furball]

Cook saw to that in the 4th test pretty well

Well played.

 

[Bijed]

Just my 2 cents on the line-up going forward, got a few similar ideas

Cook
Hameed
Jennings (Can swap positions with Cook, not really fussed)
Root *
Stokes
Bairstow +
Ali
Buttler
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root *
Stokes
Bairstow +
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root *
Stokes
Bairstow +
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Leach
Anderson

1. Looks wrong with Buttler at 8, but didn't feel I could legitimately place him above the others, and he strikes me as about as good a batting-with-the-tail guy as we've got going. Also appears to be a good fielder and can keep wicket if Jonny is having a shocker.

2. Initially felt wrong putting Rashid in there, but the line up has the other bases covered so I reckon he could be a luxury we can afford. His batting will sometimes be useful aswell.

3. Assuming Leach's action is all fine now (which I gather it is), do want to see him tried out and to me it's only really Rashid who would make way for him.

Edit: Had Stokes twice in each line up. I mean, on his day, it's like having an extra man, but still...

 

[Pothas]

Moeen has had such a strange winter, has made the runs but not really convinced anyone, think he has done just about enough to get the South Africa series as a batsman. He could really do with half a season in County cricket really focussing on being a batsman again, it is a shame that all his focus will be on limited overs cricket with England.

 

[Compton]

Moeen is a lock. He doesn't have to find his role in the England side because everyone knows what it is. He's a batsman, and also probably England's best spinner.

Ideally he'll find a fixed spot in the batting lineup, but I don't think having a player that can move up and down is necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Compton]

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Moeen
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

Something like that. The batting is deep enough that they probably don't need an additional batsman, and there's already 4 seamers, so they may as well keep picking Rashid for another option.

 

[burr]

Haha, this is brilliant. (Not sure if this has been quoted already, not willing to dig through 10 pages of this thread to find out).

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/dec/20/england-india-test-series-alastair-cook

Apparently, if you get thrashed, you deserve 'enormous admiration' for not allowing your 'sprit' to break in the face of that enormous thrashing. God, I have so much to learn. Thank you, Mr Smyth, your profundities leave me in awe.

 

[S.Kennedy]

I would say the way they collapsed on that last day of the series, what most considered a dead cert 'draw', epitomises the breaking of (their) spirit.

 

[honestbharani]

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Moeen
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

Something like that. The batting is deep enough that they probably don't need an additional batsman, and there's already 4 seamers, so they may as well keep picking Rashid for another option.

Basically what I posted..

 

[honestbharani]

Moeen has scored 1000+ runs at just shy of 47 with 4 tons, how is he not a batsman who bowls a bit? Absolute absurd, and team moving forwards needs to have Moeen in it.

I get his stats, mate, but you are not going to be an international quality batsman when you suck this much in playing a short ball. I did have him in the side I said I would go with and I have him batting at 6/7 which I think is the more ideal number for him if he is playing tests. And the English home season will show whether he is a good option for the Ashes in Australia or not.

 

[Prince EWS]

I get his stats, mate, but you are not going to be an international quality batsman when you suck this much in playing a short ball. I did have him in the side I said I would go with and I have him batting at 6/7 which I think is the more ideal number for him if he is playing tests. And the English home season will show whether he is a good option for the Ashes in Australia or not.

Yeah I think the sensible approach to Moeen at the moment is essentially "I don't really have faith but he's earned a run". Four is definitely a spot too high but he's earned a go playing primarily as a batsman somewhere between 5 and 7 along with Stokes and Bairstow. I think I'd probably go Bairstow-Stokes-Moeen as the order but I don't think it matters too much.

 

[Shri]

Merely above average pace bowlers bounced him out easily. The really good ones will find it even easier to get him out.

 

[anil1405]

Well...I'm not saying he's bad but again, I feel it's just looking at stats rather than the actual bowling. He is a good solid bowler (like most "pace" bowlers on the scene at the moment) but there is nothing tremendous about him I guess he could make a top 10 in the class of 2016 but noway should he be above Shah. Take away Wagners 11 wickets against Zimbabwe and you're left with a crappy deal in India and a couple of good spells against the saffers. How that is supposed to supplant a guy with 2 ten fors, one in his first test series in England, which also produced 2 5 fors and every time Shah bowled well, Pakistan got a win or a whiff of a win.Not to mention he bowled well against the Windies too.

So, Wagner in a top 10 isn't so much the issue, above Shah is. Same goes for Broad too.

The argument of he got 11 wickets against Zim so it doesn't count is like saying Hayden's 380 shouldn't count since it was against Zim. If you look beyond stats and had seen the way he bowled it would show you the other side of the coin where he constantly troubled bastmen with his short pitch stuff. Not just against Zim but against every opposition. Even in India he bowled some lovely spells without much success. There might not be anything tremendous about Wagner which makes you look at him and say he is just another bowler in the park but the rankings do justify the way he bowled and am not surprised he has been ranked above Yasir.

 

[Gnske]

Anyone who talks smack about Wagner deserves to be sent to the darkest recesses of the NZ Domestic thread to rot in their own little version of hell.