The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Zinzan]

No it's all time.

I initially had Headley in my side but in a team with Lara and Lloyd, I'd have Sobers down at 7 which is unacceptable.

The 4 way battle for the Windies greatest ever bat is close between Sobers, Headley, Richard & Lara. Lloyd isn't featured in that discussion.

Here's a poll done here a few years back which indicates it's fairly close between their big 4. Even outside of these 4, I think you'll find most would also have the 3Ws ahead of Lloyd.

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/58357-who-greatest-west-indies-batsman-all-time.html

 

[Zinzan]

Anyone want to attempt an All-time 'peak' Test XI, based strictly on a 5 year period.

Qualification: Min 20 tests.

 

[smash84]

All time Pakistan and India XIs to follow, again, I'm just doing this cos I have some time on my hands and its not set in stone lol (Can any all time XI ever be?) so here goes:

Pakistan:

1. H. Muhammad
2. S. Anwar
3. Y. Khan
4. J. Miandad
5. M. Yousuf
6. I. Khan c
7. W. Bari wk
8. W. Akram
9. A. Qadir
10. S. Akhtar
11. W. Younis

Mushy, Shaqy and Ajmal all get left out but could find their way in depending on conditions, Inzy too which may be a shock to some. I could have included an extra bat and gone in with 4 proper bowlers and some part time work from Hanif and Younis.

India:

1. S. Gavaskar
2. V. Sehwag
3. R. Dravid c
4. S. Tendulkar
5. S. Ganguly
6. MS. Dhoni wk
7. K. Dev
8. A. Kumble
9. Z. Khan
10. J. Srinath
11. B. Bedi

Hazare, Laxman and Azharuddin miss out for various reasons, most of all my feeling that I had to make some room for Ganguly, not just because of his gutsy batting but the new, aggressive attitude he brought to India. There's not much to say about the lack of pace bowling but Dev, Khan and Srinath were all good on their day and obviously Dev's importance as a bridge between the batsmen and the bowlers.

Imran at 6 is way too high, and Dhoni really shouldn't be in an AT test XI for India

 

[listento_me]

Imran at 6 is way too high, and Dhoni really shouldn't be in an AT test XI for India

why not? he is easily the best keeper/batsman India has ever had. They have had better keepers maybe but not one who could bat like Dhoni. He adds great depth to the lower order.

Khan averaged 50+ and still managed a bowling average of 20 for a considerable length of time, I think around 82-92 (time off for injury and semi-retirement included lol). I don't see why he can't be batting at 6. Who would you have? An extra batsman leaves you with 4 bowlers and that's insane in test cricket as the current Pak team are finding out. Unless you opt out having a keeper and place gloves on anyone else but from all accounts, Bari is an atg keeper.

 

[listento_me]

The 4 way battle for the Windies greatest ever bat is close between Sobers, Headley, Richard & Lara. Lloyd isn't featured in that discussion.

Here's a poll done here a few years back which indicates it's fairly close between their big 4. Even outside of these 4, I think you'll find most would also have the 3Ws ahead of Lloyd.

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/58357-who-greatest-west-indies-batsman-all-time.html

No offense but a poll here can't be a serious point to discuss.

You agree that two of the guys I mentioned are top batsmen for Windies. So the argument is whether or not Lloyd should be there. With his requirement as captain, I don't see why? Plus he upped his game as a batsman in the second half of his career, while captaining numerous series unbeaten and 2 world cup wins. Lloyd not in a world XI for that country is madness.

Whats your Windies XI?

Edit:

Going to do a Sri Lanka XI now:

1. S. Jayasuriya
2. M. Attapatu
3. K .Sanagakkara wk
4. M. Jayawardene
5. T. Dilshan
6. A. De Silva
7. A. Ranatunga c
8. A. Mathews
9. C. Vaas
10. M. Muralitharan
11. L. Malinga

 

[Coronis]

why not? he is easily the best keeper/batsman India has ever had. They have had better keepers maybe but not one who could bat like Dhoni. He adds great depth to the lower order.

Khan averaged 50+ and still managed a bowling average of 20 for a considerable length of time, I think around 82-92 (time off for injury and semi-retirement included lol). I don't see why he can't be batting at 6. Who would you have? An extra batsman leaves you with 4 bowlers and that's insane in test cricket as the current Pak team are finding out. Unless you opt out having a keeper and place gloves on anyone else but from all accounts, Bari is an atg keeper.

4 bowlers seems to be working for Australia.

 

[smash84]

why not? he is easily the best keeper/batsman India has ever had. They have had better keepers maybe but not one who could bat like Dhoni. He adds great depth to the lower order.

Khan averaged 50+ and still managed a bowling average of 20 for a considerable length of time, I think around 82-92 (time off for injury and semi-retirement included lol). I don't see why he can't be batting at 6. Who would you have? An extra batsman leaves you with 4 bowlers and that's insane in test cricket as the current Pak team are finding out. Unless you opt out having a keeper and place gloves on anyone else but from all accounts, Bari is an atg keeper.

4 bowlers has worked for most teams. And just because Imran had an average of 50 for the last decade of his career doesn't mean he was like Viv (whose career average was 50). I have followed Imran closely over the years (my favorite ever cricketer) and to me he is second only to Bradman as a cricketer but his batting really wasn't what you would want someone in an ATXI to have batting at number 6. He was solid with a good defence, and could play quickly at times but that was all that he was. A more solid version of Moeen Ali let's say (for lack of a better example right now). I am fine with Bari but if you're looking for more batting rashid latif is a good option as well. I'd have Mo Yo to shore up the batting at 6.

 

[Coronis]

3 combination XI's.

Australia/England
Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Bradman
Hammond
Chappell
Border*
Gilchrist+
Warne
Trueman
Lillee
McGrath

Border could be swapped for Miller or Botham I guess but I think Hammond's a good enough 5th bowler.

Asia
Gavaskar
Anwar
Sangakkara+
Tendulkar
Dravid
Miandad
Imran*
Dev
Wasim
Waqar
Muralitharan

Maybe another spinner for Kapil? Not sure.

RoW (SA, WI, NZ, ZIM)
Smith*
Greenidge
Headley
Pollock
Richards
Kallis
Sobers
Flower+
Hadlee
Marshall
Tayfield
Steyn

Williamson could maybe force his way on here at some point, probably replace Pollock, though I'm loathe to do it.

 

[smash84]

no need for dev in the Asian side, also you could make a much better team for ROW

 

[Coronis]

no need for dev in the Asian side, also you could make a much better team for ROW

Who would you suggest replacing him with, and care to give suggestions?

 

[smash84]

another batsman, there are plenty to choose from. Wasim, Imran, Waqar and Murali are a good enough bowling combo. Dev is overkill

 

[Coronis]

Probably this then:

Gavaskar
Anwar
Sangakkara+
Tendulkar
Dravid
Younis
Miandad
Imran
Wasim
Waqar
Muralitharan

Care to make any suggestions for the RoW XI?

 

[listento_me]

4 bowlers seems to be working for Australia.

Different teams, different strokes. If they were to go with 4 bowlers into Asia they'd get hammered...oh wait.

5 bowlers is always great, considering one of those in my side is an all rounder.

 

[listento_me]

Time for a SA XI:

1. G. Smith c
2. G. Kirsten
3. H. Amla
4. G. Pollock
5. J. Kallis
6. AB
7. M. Boucher wk
8. S. Pollock
9. M. Ntini
10. D. Steyn
11. A. Donald

I know there's no spinner but what can I do? I feel this was the most straight forward of teams to come up with as these players pick themselves.

 

[Coronis]

Tayfield was a fine spinner.

 

[listento_me]

This is my last one for a while, I promise but some people here were talking about Asia v ROW so I thought, I'd get in a word on that. I'll do both tests and ODI sides.

Asian XI Tests
1. S. Gavaskar
2. S. Tendulkar
3. K. Sangakkara wk
4. Y. Khan
5. J. Miandad
6. M. Yousuf
7. I. Khan c
8. W. Akram
9. M. Muralitharan
10. A. Kumble
11.W. Younis

ROW XI Tests
1. G. Greenidge
2. J. Hobbs
3. D. Bradman
4. V. Richards c
5. J. Kallis
6. G. Sobers
7. A. Gilchrist wk
8. R. Hadlee
9. S. Warne
10. F. Trueman
11. G. McGrath

Bit of an experimental side but lots of options, SObers can do the lot, Kallis can bowl well, Hadlee can bat and shoreu p an end at 8 and then genuine wicket taking threats in Warne, Trueman and McGrath.

Asian ODI XI
1. S. Jayasuriya
2. S. Tendulkar
3. R. Dravid
4. M. Jayawardene
5. I. Ul Haq
6. MS Dhoni wk
7. I. Khan c
8. W. Akram
9. C. Vaas
10. M. Muralitharan
11. W. Younis

ROW ODI XI
1. M. Hayden
2. G. Smith
3. R. Ponting c
4. V. Richards
5. B. Lara
6. AB wk
7. S. Pollock
8. D. Vettori
9. S. Warne
10. G. McGrath
11. S. Bond
.

 

[ImpatientLime]

England:

1. Hobbs
2. Cook
3. Hammond
4. KP
5. Gooch
6. Stewart wk
7. Botham
8. Flintoff
9. Swann
10. Trueman
11. Anderson

again subject to change

stewart wouldn't even make an england xi over the past 25 years as wk/batsman. he averaged in the low 30s combining the two. matt prior is vastly superior.

 

[Red]

another batsman, there are plenty to choose from. Wasim, Imran, Waqar and Murali are a good enough bowling combo. Dev is overkill

There's no need to replace Dev when you have Miandad at 6, Imran at 7 and Dev at 8 (plus Wasim at 9). That's very very strong.

 

[Red]

Time for a SA XI:

1. G. Smith c
2. G. Kirsten
3. H. Amla
4. G. Pollock
5. J. Kallis
6. AB
7. M. Boucher wk
8. S. Pollock
9. M. Ntini
10. D. Steyn
11. A. Donald

I know there's no spinner but what can I do? I feel this was the most straight forward of teams to come up with as these players pick themselves.

At least one of, if not both, Aubrey Faulkner and Hugh Tayfield.

Ntini should'nt be considered when there's already three quicks plus Kallis. I'd have Procter ahead of him anyway. My SA XI is:

B.Richards
Smith *
Kallis
G.Pollock
Nourse
AB DeVilliers +
Faulkner/S.Pollock
Procter
Tayfield
Steyn
Donald

 

[smash84]

There's no need to replace Dev when you have Miandad at 6, Imran at 7 and Dev at 8 (plus Wasim at 9). That's very very strong.

not if you're playing another ATG side