Just how many "ATGs" are there in your mind?

[Chrish]

I will give it a go:

Australia: Bradman, Chappell, Ponting, Miller, Warne, Mcgrath, Lillie, Gilly

England: Hobbs, Hutton, Trueman, Botham

India: Tendy, Sunny, Dravid, Kapil

NZ: Hadlee

Pakistan: Wasim, Imran, Waqar

South Africa: Steyn, Kallis, Donald

SL: Murali, Sanga

WI: Sobers, Viv, Lara, Marshall, Ambrose

So, about 30.

Find it impossible how to rate Ranjitsinhji, Barnes, G Pollock, Barry Richard, Mike Proctor, and Headley. Then there is Vince van der Bijl who took 767 FC wickets at 16.5!
So, I am not too sure how their FC performance would have translated into test had they played more.

 

[Red]

Ian Healy criminally underrated in these threads. Voted best keeper of the 20th century, he gets forgotten because the GOAT was his replacement (and wasn't as good of a gloveman). The hundred he made against Ambrose, Walsh and Bishop at the Gabba will go down as one of the finest innings ever played by a keeper.

Should be considered in the top 5 keepers of all time.

Very good point.It's easy to overlook Healy as a cricketer because his commentary is so dire, but he was an insanely good keeper. As good as I've seen over such an extended period.

This is very true.

Was named as Australia's keeper of the century in 2000 (Gilchrist debuted in 99). He didn't have a great batting average, but he always seemed to make runs when we needed them most. Is the best keeper I've ever seen.

 

[Howe_zat]

The definition of ATG is important.

look this is clearly not true

 

[Red]

look this is clearly not true

what?

 

[indiaholic]

How many people have played tests? Maybe cap the numbrr of ATGs to 1% of that? Or maybe 5%?

 

[Burgey]

look this is clearly not true

But it is to us ffs. We spend hours at a time on a ****ing cricket website. Of course it's important!

 

[GirtBySea]

I am going to work my way down decades, starting with this one to see what I can come up with. I consider these guys AT cricket greats, not their country's or GOEs. This will take a few days at least so bear with me. I am also, for now and for the sake of time, only considering players who have retired. 2010s: Jacques Kallis, Ricky Ponting, Sachin Tendulkar, Muralitharan, Dravid, Sangakkara

 

[Zinzan]

Bump - off the back of the question coming up a couple of times of late.

 

[Starfighter]

An indefinite number. Firstly because I'm not really bothered to think through it, but secondly because those who want a definition of a limited number means some players retroactively become non-ATG and that doesn't seem right to me.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah, for me, a player is an ATG or not based on their performances, not some arbitrary limit or cut-off number.

 

[howitzer]

I currently have 25 or so batsmen, 15-16 quicks, Barnes, 5-7 spinners, 4 WKs, a few others who don't outright qualify on any one of those parameters: Miller, Botham, Dev, Pollock(who only just misses out on bowling alone) and maybe 2-3 captains who don't miss out by much on pure cricketing ability like Worrell, Benaud and possibly Lloyd. So currently 55-60 or so. As cricket history gets longer it'll likely go up.

 

[Coronis]

An indefinite number. Firstly because I'm not really bothered to think through it, but secondly because those who want a definition of a limited number means some players retroactively become non-ATG and that doesn't seem right to me.

Yeah I don’t like this idea that a player can stop being an ATG, whether its based on an arbitraty number of players or a late career slump. I think the latter can effect a direct comparison to another player, but once you’ve “become” an ATG thats it, you’re an ATG.

 

[Molehill]

Yeah I don’t like this idea that a player can stop being an ATG, whether its based on an arbitraty number of players or a late career slump. I think the latter can effect a direct comparison to another player, but once you’ve “become” an ATG thats it, you’re an ATG.

What if an ATG took up drowning puppies? Still an ATG?

Or worse still, became a **** commentator?

 

[Coronis]

What if an ATG took up drowning puppies? Still an ATG?

Or worse still, became a **** commentator?

see: Karl Malone

 

[Migara]

Probably 25-50, more close to 50. The count gradually increases or if we need to keep it in a range, we need to raise the bar with time.

 

[Migara]

Atg since my time of watching cricket, so beginning in 1980:

Wi: Ambrose, Marshall, Lara, Richards.
Oz: Lillee, Mcgrath, Warne, Border, Waugh, Ponting, Gilchrist
Pak: Imran, Javed, Wasim, Waqar.
Nzl: Hadlee
Eng: ???
Ind: Sachin, Gavaskar
Rsa: Kallis, Donald, Steyn
SL: Murali

Unlucky to miss out: Dravid, Flower, Sanga, Garner, Walsh, Holding, Chanders, Pollock, Smith G, Hayden, etc etc

Future potential atg: Root, Kw, Smith, Kohli, Rabada, Ashwin, Etc

Definitely Sanga and Flower are there. Better than Waugh and arguably better than Javed too. Rate Pollock in there as well. Both being keepers raises their chances. I'd argue Pollock was more instrumental for RSA victories than Kallis. Younis Khan also has a big say to the list.

For England, I also cannot think of any. Cook and Gooch are there and there abouts.

 

[Migara]

The definition of ATG is important. If I was working with:

"An ATG is a player who would almost always make his national all time side, and also not look out of place in an all time World XI"

my list would be:


England: SF Barnes - Jack Hobbs - Len Hutton - Wally Hammond - Jim Laker - Fred Trueman - Ian Botham - Allan Knott

Australia: Victor Trumper - Don Bradman - Greg Chappell - Adam Gilchrist - Shane Warne - Bill O'Reilly - Glenn McGrath - Dennis Lillee - Keith Miller

WI: Gordon Greenidge - Garry Sobers - Viv Richards - George Headley - Brian Lara - Malcolm Marshall - Curtly Ambrose - Michael Holding

Pakistan: Imran Khan - Wasim Akram

India: Sachin Tendulkar : Kapil Dev

SA: Graham Pollock - Jaques Kallis - Dale Steyn

SL: Muttiah Muralitharan - Kumar Sangakkara

NZ - Richard Hadlee


That's only 35

If we are talking guys who might make their own nation's test ATG XI, the pool is much bigger, obviously.

For Zimbabwe Andrew Flower

For India, Gavaskar FFS

SA: Donald and Pollock too.

PAk: Waqar for sure. Lillee makes the list too.

 

[Migara]

Find it impossible how to rate Ranjitsinhji, Barnes, G Pollock, Barry Richard, Mike Proctor, and Headley. Then there is Vince van der Bijl who took 767 FC wickets at 16.5!
So, I am not too sure how their FC performance would have translated into test had they played more.

Actually it should not. FC is FC. Test is Test. Two different beasts.

 

[Ali TT]

see: Karl Malone

Need to be a dark list of ATGs where we recognise the achievement without recognising the individual.

 

[Coronis]

Need to be a dark list of ATGs where we recognise the achievement without recognising the individual.

I still consider him one of the greats, it doesn’t affect my opinion of his sporting achievements since it had nothing to do with those. Same as if Kobe hadn’t skated.