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***Official*** Pakistan in Australia 2016/17

Blocky

Banned
Can we discount the small sample size of his recent series in SL as well then? Or the two tests he's played in India in 2013? Why are those samples statistically significant but he samples where he's played well aren't? It's a bit of an obsession you have going on here atm with regards him. I don't know why, other than that he averaged 131 in NZ and you've got the shits with him for that.
I do discount Sri Lanka, he didn't have enough innings there to actually prove one way or another if he can bat in those conditions.
I don't discount his technique, his acumen against the moving ball and his style of dismissals.

If we're solely going on average, we're back to Adam Voges being the best batsman since Pollock.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I should add that Smith has scored 2800 runs and Warner 2700 in this time over 26 tests. Rogers accrued 1166 in his 14 tests.
 

TheJediBrah

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Smith remains a guy who scores unbelievable amounts of runs in home conditions against attacks that suit him; he's been found out in trying conditions by bowling attacks that know how to attack him and if he batted most of his time in the conditions that Root or Williamson bat in at home, his average would be 45, not 58..
This is manifestly false and explained to you at least dozens of times

Surely you can come up with something different. Not necessarily something true, but at least different to keep things interesting.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
That's the last time I try to edit a post. Deleted my post without confirmation when I tried editing it.

Basically not counting the west indies, only Khawaja (Ave 55) and Voges (Ave 41) has averaged over 40 outside Smith, Warner and Rogers.

Our middle order has been made of glass with M Marsh and Neville averaging 22 and Haddin averaging 15.
 

Shady Slim

International Coach
i love a good anti steve smith circlejerk but it's bs to say he wouldn't be effective batting overseas

if philander and steyn and rabada are an attack that suits me i'd be a very happy man
 

Zinzan

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i love a good anti steve smith circlejerk but it's bs to say he wouldn't be effective batting overseas
Too true, I'm not sure what's more circle-jerky here, suggestions that Smith isn't in fact one of the top 3-4 bats in the world currently or the defensiveness from some about it being pointed out that he got lucky yesterday.

Fairly even contest imho, the beauty of extremes.
 

Shady Slim

International Coach
i know how stupid it sounds, and remember i'm a key player in the "smith is a **** bloke" club, but i wouldn't be surprised if he didn't know he hit it at all

and even if he did since nobody appealed he's under no obligation to walk imo
 

Zinzan

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i know how stupid it sounds, and remember i'm a key player in the "smith is a **** bloke" club, but i wouldn't be surprised if he didn't know he hit it at all

and even if he did since nobody appealed he's under no obligation to walk imo
Agree with this, but appealing shouldn't make a difference, which is why I defended Stuart Broad when the Clarke, Lehmann and co. tried to get all moral about walking a couple of years back.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
I do enjoy how moderators inflame debate, then infract when the debate gets too hot for them.

Smith remains a guy who scores unbelievable amounts of runs in home conditions against attacks that suit him; he's been found out in trying conditions by bowling attacks that know how to attack him and if he batted most of his time in the conditions that Root or Williamson bat in at home, his average would be 45, not 58.

The only statistically significant sample he has outside of Australia is England where he averages 43.3, so the talk about him being as good away from home hasn't been proven yet. What he is tremendous at is making hundreds when he's set, something that at the moment seems to be out of the reach of Root, Williamson and Kohli. It boosts his average significantly, however, his runs to wins ratio is far worse than almost any other top Australian batsman since pre Border.

So fair play to the guy, he knows how to make it count when he's in, but he has the type of technique that will always see him struggle against the moving ball; he's been extremely fortunate that for the past two to three years, the batch of Kookaburra balls have simply not done as much as they used to, this is evident in the fact that swing demons like Starc, Southee, Boult are all struggling to make the thing move for longer than a few overs.

But if you're really assessing who the best batsman of those four are, let's see what happens when he has more than a few test series against the Duke.
Keep in mind that he had that 2010 series vs Pakistan included in those England stats, which has no real bearing on how good a batsman he actually is given he was picked as a bowling all-rounder. Still part of his career, yes, but given the dramatic difference between Smith pre- and post-2013 recall, I don't think it has much of a bearing on anything. Remove the early days and he's averaging 47 in England from 10 Tests. Throw in that he's averaging >40 and has at least one 90+ score in every country he's played in -- and yes we temper that by acknowledging the lack of sample size in any given nation -- and I don't see how you can criticise him as being bad away from home.

To state the bleeding obvious, but Smith's career average is 58. Since the recall, it's 63. And yet he's still being discussed as more-or-less equal with Williamson, Kohli and Root here -- guys averaging between about 49 and 52 across their careers. Given how big a five run difference in average is, I think most people are factoring in Smith's advantageous home decks somewhat to (rightly) leave him in the conversation with the others. Even if his home advantage wasn't significant at all, he's still averaging around 50 in Test cricket, from nearly 50 matches, across a variety of conditions. Which keeps him in the conversation with KW, Kohli and Root, at this stage​.
 

Burgey

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Warne talking spin bowling is infinitely better than anything else he's ever said in commentary.
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I must say it's good of the Pakistanis to pick all lefty pacers and create some footmarks so Lyon has a chance.
 

Zinzan

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Imran Khan was quite impressive against NZ, so was surprised he wasn't in the line-up as the right arm variation.
 

Shady Slim

International Coach
Warne talking spin bowling is infinitely better than anything else he's ever said in commentary.
"people ask if you can pick all right arm pacers then why can't you pick all left armers, but you just can't

ftr i don't mind warnie's commentary but have a severe problem with clarke's, he commentates as if he's "one of the boys" still and you think he's like a player getting a sideline interview on the state of the game rather than a commentator - incidentally if there's anyone who wants to host i can do comms with them lol
 

TheJediBrah

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Too true, I'm not sure what's more circle-jerky here, suggestions that Smith isn't in fact one of the top 3-4 bats in the world currently or the defensiveness from some about it being pointed out that he got lucky yesterday.
Fairly even contest imho, the beauty of extremes.
I still can't tell if you're trying to be funny or not
i know how stupid it sounds, and remember i'm a key player in the "smith is a **** bloke" club, but i wouldn't be surprised if he didn't know he hit it at all

and even if he did since nobody appealed he's under no obligation to walk imo
I thought that too, but apparently according to Renshaw press conference TPC walked in after the sesh and said "yeah I smashed it"
 

Zinzan

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I don't understand why people are so hard on either Warne's or Clarke's commentary when you have the likes of Nicholas, Healy & Brayshaw (they seem to have replaced him thank ***) to contrast with them in the same Comm box.

Neither Warne nor Clarke are anywhere near as sickly to listen to as Mark 'the poofy cheerleader' Nicholas, surely.
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Ah yes Ian, right armers who can move the ball away from an off stump line will get most batsmen. And how is three lefties different to three righties, especially considering our lefty dominant batting?
 

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