***Official*** England in India 2016/17

[indiaholic]

Yeah well played though.

 

[cnerd123]

This series could well be the battle of the engine rooms (6-10)

Which is the stronger lower order - Stokes/Bairstow/Woakes/Rashid/Broad/Anderson vs Saha or Nair/Ashwin/Jadeja/Jayant/Bhuvi/Shami or Yadav

 

[OverratedSanity]

Pitched in line and stayed low. Not cool.

There's been a few of those. I'm a little surprised people are saying this is still flat. It's going to get worse very quickly imo. Need as many as possible here to get a big lead.

 

[cnerd123]

Also Jaddu tonning up could be the most unexpected result of 2016. And that's saying something.

 

[cnerd123]

Would Jadeja tonning up vs England be more or less humiliating than the loss to BD?

More I reckon

 

[Blocky]

These are 450 conditions, both sides have been let down by errors but India's tail looks like it's going to get to at least a hundred run lead which should be enough with how dry this wicket is getting.

 

[Zinzan]

Ah shame for Ashwin missing out on scoring his first 'non-minnow' ton.

Anyway, India doing well to prove that whilst winning the toss is an enormous factor in Indian conditions, it's not the be all & end all.

Similar to NZ proving the same thing against Pakistan currently in NZ conditions.

 

[Blocky]

Ah shame for Ashwin missing out on scoring his first 'non-minnow' ton.

Anyway, India doing well to prove that whilst winning the toss is an enormous factor in Indian conditions, it's not the be all & end all.

Similar to NZ proving the same thing against Pakistan currently in NZ conditions.

I think England proved that winning the toss isn't the be all and end all when you're willing to gift so many wickets away in reasonably easy batting conditions.

 

[Zinzan]

I think England proved that winning the toss isn't the be all and end all when you're willing to gift so many wickets away in reasonably easy batting conditions.

Maybe there were some soft dismissals, but fair play to India none-the-less. I suggested they had it easy against NZ winning every toss, so credit when they lose one and yet still take advantage.

 

[wpdavid]

Well yes, this match was effectively won and lost when we batted like idiots on the first morning. What we've seen this morning confirms what we knew already, that this is a 400+ pitch at present.

As for the toss issue, I can only repeat what I said a week or so back, along the lines that England need to win the toss for the matches to be competitive, whereas if India win the toss the result's pretty much a foregone conclusion. But given the state of our top order and spin attack, there was never any guarantee of winning when he have first use of the wicket. I know some folks suggested otherwise, but that was just silly.

 

[Zinzan]

I can only repeat what I said a week or so back, along the lines that England need to win the toss for the matches to be competitive, whereas if India win the toss the result's pretty much a foregone conclusion. .

Yup, this law almost needs to be written into the updated ICC law-book.

 

[Blocky]

I don't mind the idea of the visiting team deciding, I think that forces boards to produce true five day wickets but also solidifies the structure of gameplay for teams coming into the country.

I'd also like to see something done around the number of meaningful tour matches that are made available to opposition when they tour countries.

 

[cnerd123]

Well yes, this match was effectively won and lost when we batted like idiots on the first morning. What we've seen this morning confirms what we knew already, that this is a 400+ pitch at present.

As for the toss issue, I can only repeat what I said a week or so back, along the lines that England need to win the toss for the matches to be competitive, whereas if India win the toss the result's pretty much a foregone conclusion. But given the state of our top order and spin attack, there was never any guarantee of winning when he have first use of the wicket. I know some folks suggested otherwise, but that was just silly.

I think the issue people had was that you seemed to suggest that the pitch was ultimately what decided the match, without giving any credit to India for being able to use it so brilliantly.

What you are saying is right - in these conditions, against India, if you lose the toss you are massively on the backfoot. But thats not just because of the pitch, it's because India have the batsmen and lower order to capitalise on it when its best for batting, and then have the bowlers to make use of it as it deteriorates. As England have shown this series, you can win the toss and still struggle if you get loose with your batting or if your bowlers can't make good use of the track.

The fact that loosing the toss is such a big deal has as much to do with how good India are as it does the pitch, if not more.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Well played India, probably won the game with that batting in the first session. Going to be a very long way back from here for England.

 

[GIMH]

Game hasn't been won or lost just yet but if we don't come out firing after lunch then the next couple of days promise to be painful.

If we can keep the lead under 100, then we have a sniff if Cook and Root can go big, followed obviously by the middle and lower order doing what it does.

 

[wpdavid]

I think the issue people had was that you seemed to suggest that the pitch was ultimately what decided the match, without giving any credit to India for being able to use it so brilliantly.

What you are saying is right - in these conditions, against India, if you lose the toss you are massively on the backfoot. But thats not just because of the pitch, it's because India have the batsmen and lower order to capitalise on it when its best for batting, and then have the bowlers to make use of it as it deteriorates. As England have shown this series, you can win the toss and still struggle if you get loose with your batting or if your bowlers can't make good use of the track.

The fact that loosing the toss is such a big deal has as much to do with how good India are as it does the pitch, if not more.

Sure. My original comment was always an observation of the strength of the two teams and their ability to use the conditions. I certainly cba to dig out my original comment, but I'd be surprised if it didn't make at least some reference to that.

tbf you may want to direct this to the guys who trotted out the win the toss win the match line, which I never did.

 

[honestbharani]

This series could well be the battle of the engine rooms (6-10)

Which is the stronger lower order - Stokes/Bairstow/Woakes/Rashid/Broad/Anderson vs Saha or Nair/Ashwin/Jadeja/Jayant/Bhuvi/Shami or Yadav

We can only hope

 

[cnerd123]

Sure. My original comment was always an observation of the strength of the two teams and their ability to use the conditions. I certainly cba to dig out my original comment, but I'd be surprised if it didn't make at least some reference to that.

tbf you may want to direct this to the guys who trotted out the win the toss win the match line, which I never did.

I believe one of them may be a certain member who feeds off our responses, so i'm not going to do that quite yet, but yea as long as we all can agree that India are awesome at home then its cool.

 

[Zinzan]

I think the issue people had was that you seemed to suggest that the pitch was ultimately what decided the match, without giving any credit to India for being able to use it so brilliantly.

What you are saying is right - in these conditions, against India, if you lose the toss you are massively on the backfoot. But thats not just because of the pitch, it's because India have the batsmen and lower order to capitalise on it when its best for batting, and then have the bowlers to make use of it as it deteriorates. As England have shown this series, you can win the toss and still struggle if you get loose with your batting or if your bowlers can't make good use of the track.

The fact that loosing the toss is such a big deal has as much to do with how good India are as it does the pitch, if not more.

Well yeah. I'm trying to quantify what winning the toss in India means. Intuitively I'd say if India win the toss against England on a typical pitch that's likely to deteriorate throughout, it makes it almost a 90-10 probability in India's favour for mine, whereas if England win the toss, it suddenly feels like a 55-45 game in India's favour.

 

[indiaholic]

Nowhere near that massive an advantage IMO.