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***Official*** Pakistan in New Zealand 2016/17
- Thread starter Niall
- Start date
Zinzan
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I don't mind that he's naturally a back of a length bowler & starts out that way, but it's beyond me that he can't seem to adjust when it's clearly a full of a length type wicket.
Athlai
Not Terrible
Have thought Southee has been showing some of his old class recently so I'm pleased to see some wickets. Still lacking in pace and has the occasional spell where he just seems to entirely lack rhythm. But the current iteration of just the one poor spell a day isn't the worst thing in the world,
The Hutt Rec
International Vice-Captain
Haven't looked at the stats, but this seems like his best series since the World Cup. Great to see.
Especially this test when he really needed to step up with no Boult.
Blocky
Banned
Just like I thought, Southee a much better bowler without Boult. They're too same same and lose themselves trying to out-swing each other.
The only mistake was the entire side trying the short pitched stuff, and Williamson bowling Wagner at the wrong end when he was doing it.
Henry is not a test bowler, ineffective.
The only mistake was the entire side trying the short pitched stuff, and Williamson bowling Wagner at the wrong end when he was doing it.
Henry is not a test bowler, ineffective.
I wonder how much of it is trying to out alpha-male Henry. In 2012 he kicked up a gear when he got dropped and couldn't command a spot by rights. Tim bowls like a drip for years, Henry turns up in India and bowls quite well, all of a sudden Southee might feel a bit threatened.
Really struggle to see how Southee and Boult are too the same when they bowl with different arms and swing it separate ways. So doubt it's that.
And this Test is another prime example of why eliminating the toss is not the answer to giving touring teams more of a chance. New Zealand had by far the worst of the conditions, yet were prepared to work harder across the board. They'll be pretty chuffed if they manage to overcome batting first on a sticky one and win.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
That's only Southee's 2nd five wicket bag in NZ. The first was on debut against against the Poms as a 19 year-old when he also slogged his highest score. That's an awfully long time between drinks.
Blocky
Banned
This is the first match Southee has played without Boult and immediately gets himself his best bowling figures in years, focused on a good line and length in the spells that got him the wicket and stepped up for the side. In matches where Boult plays without Southee he also does much better than he has with Southee.
Despite the fact that they should be setting up each other to take wickets due to the different angles and movements, that's just not happening. I think it's largely due to the fact that they don't know how to perform to plans and tend to get the player used to the swinging ball. I said it before the test that Southee would perform in the absence of Boult and expect this would continue any time one or the other isn't available.
Despite the fact that they should be setting up each other to take wickets due to the different angles and movements, that's just not happening. I think it's largely due to the fact that they don't know how to perform to plans and tend to get the player used to the swinging ball. I said it before the test that Southee would perform in the absence of Boult and expect this would continue any time one or the other isn't available.
Moss
International Captain
Not sure about the Southee and Boult bit, they were a very effective partnership from 2012-2014. The out-swinging each other part to me was more a result of McCullum going ultra-aggressive around the time of the World Cup and especially on the England tour that followed. IIRC Boult did struggle in Southee's absence on a couple of tours in 2013. They need to get more disciplined about their bowling, simple as that.
Flem274*
123/5
This is rubbish. They're excellent together, a fact widely acknowledged by judges worldwide and by the results. Their issues stem from injury and in Southee's case, maybe a bit of complacency judging by what even his biggest fan has said in the past. When both are match fit and have their radars (not seen since England 2015) only a madman or a fool would separate them.
You also said that if Southee or Henry failed here they should be dropped, which means you've had a bob each way for your various agendas.
Blocky
Banned
They seemed like an effective partnership, because they were getting the miracle wickets that we expect and had people like Wagner there to clean up after them when it didn't go to plan. Both of them are down on place and both of them struggle to bowl to a plan and both of them offer nothing once the ball gets a bit older. I wouldn't have both of them in the same team, the issue is who else do you go to, all of you have been saying Henry but he's not a test match capable bowler, he's never going to get wickets with the type of muff he bowls.
Southee definitely struggles to bowl to a plan, but was impressive today/yesterday - thought he bowled too short in helpful conditions at Hagley and was happy to bowl maidens without getting up far enough to maybe go for a couple but also nick guys out. That's not an accusation I'd be pointing at Trent. He was outstanding in 2013-14, then got injured and shouldn't have been playing. But we had bugger all else. Thought he bowled with plenty of smarts and effort in India without as much to show for it, with new and old ball.
Henry isn't there yet, no. If you compare him to Jimmy Anderson, Anderson burst onto the ODI scene but was gash in Tests because his natural length wasn't suited and he was absolutely ineffective with a ball that didn't swing. Not at all suggesting Henry will get anywhere near Anderson's Test career but he has the chance to go away and come back better, as Anderson did and became a bowler who could be effective in any conditions.
Henry isn't there yet, no. If you compare him to Jimmy Anderson, Anderson burst onto the ODI scene but was gash in Tests because his natural length wasn't suited and he was absolutely ineffective with a ball that didn't swing. Not at all suggesting Henry will get anywhere near Anderson's Test career but he has the chance to go away and come back better, as Anderson did and became a bowler who could be effective in any conditions.
Blocky
Banned
Anderson was taking wickets at better than 60 in his first few tests, we've tried Henry enough times in some pretty helpful conditions to realise he's just not a guy that's got it for test cricket. He's another Doug Bracewell in my view, and potentially Bracewell was even better.