***Official*** Australia in South Africa + South Africa in Australia 2016/17

[Prince EWS]

I'd be open to axing Smith as captain if I thought there was another reasonable candidate in or even near the side, particularly given how much his use of Lyon shits me.

There isn't though.

 

[Blocky]

We've had massive collapses for almost a decade now under four different captains. Gonna put it out there that it's not the captains who are the problem.

I'm down for blaming Lehmann though.

Well there are multiple things to blame

1. The coach/captain for not setting higher standards for the side
2. Cricket Australia being satisfied by preparing highway roads and backing Mitchell Johnson/Starc/et all to be marginally better than the other bowling attack at creating break throughs
3. Batsmen themselves not applying themselves more
4. Fielding standards dropping meaning dropped catches, meaning more runs for the opposition they shouldn't score.
5. Bad man management

We have the same problem in NZ - our best player is our captain, and he doesn't seem to be a very good captain, but we feel we have no other options yet all the above could be said about Williamson except Point 2. In which we generally hope that the ball is swinging so Boult/Southee are useful.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Kyle Abbott the player of the match

 

[Starfighter]

If Lehmann goes who should replace him as coach?

I certainly think he's outstayed his welcome, the attack at all costs attitude abetted by the media has damaged our batting markedly.

Didn't he recently have his contract extended to 2019?

 

[Tangles]

As someone said earlier losing like this hurts but with a dads army component to the batting it feels worse.

 

[Starfighter]

Well done to Abbott on the MoM. He was absolutely magnificent during the second innings.

 

[quincywagstaff]

Yeah, I reckon you can blame Smith – something seriously, seriously wrong with team culture atm. Something went horribly wrong on that Sri Lanka tour and his being sent home in the early part of the ODI series (and before the T20s) suggested something had gone wrong behind the scenes with his leadership

Even when Oz were dominating last summer Smith struck me as too immature for the job – came across as rather petulant and his body language is the worst I’ve ever seen from any Test captain. I doubt they’ll sack him now but he’s probably got to the end of the summer to turn things around.

 

[Burgey]

Just because he's a brilliant bat doesn't make him a brilliant captain, and the signs are that the team doesn't perform under him.

Why isn't he calling his batsmen to account for these weak dismissals?

How do you know he isn't? Just because he doesn't publicly bake them doesn't mean he isn't into them in the shed.

A lot of the criticism I've seen on here re his captaincy has been he's too demonstrative in his on-field demeanour. That it's too easy to tell when he's pissed off. I don't care if you're Taylor, Brearley, Benaud and Worrell rolled into one. You can't win when you're posting **** totals. It's not the captain's fault. Do you want him to put two short gullies in and get funky like Fleming used to, get called a genius but still lose all the time? It makes no difference. You can have as many good plans as you like for opposing batsmen, and tbf the bowling has been more than acceptable this series. It's the batting, pure and simple. If they post 250-300 here in the first dig he has something to work with in the conditions. If he sat back and let the batsmen dominate in those circumstances I'd agree with you. But you've got no options when you've posted 85. None.

 

[Starfighter]

Lol they're still having the Cricket Show. Hope Chappelli goes into full curmudgeon mode.

 

[Black_Warrior]

It's all about the Ashes. These defeats don't really count


Australia face short-term pain for Ashes success - Ponting | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Blocky]

How do you know he isn't? Just because he doesn't publicly bake them doesn't mean he isn't into them in the shed.

A lot of the criticism I've seen on here re his captaincy has been he's too demonstrative in his on-field demeanour. That it's too easy to tell when he's pissed off. I don't care if you're Taylor, Brearley, Benaud and Worrell rolled into one. You can't win when you're posting **** totals. It's not the captain's fault. Do you want him to put two short gullies in and get funky like Fleming used to, get called a genius but still lose all the time? It makes no difference. You can have as many good plans as you like for opposing batsmen, and tbf the bowling has been more than acceptable this series. It's the batting, pure and simple. If they post 250-300 here in the first dig he has something to work with in the conditions. If he sat back and let the batsmen dominate in those circumstances I'd agree with you. But you've got no options when you've posted 85. None.

For all of the above, he comes across like a selfish cricketer who cares more about his own performance rather than what the team is doing - i.e not shepherding the tail end in the first innings, talking about how he decided to combat the bowling, etc.

I could be wrong, but I've never seen an Australian side perform this badly (5 tests in a row) since maybe the pre-Border 80s.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah, I reckon you can blame Smith – something seriously, seriously wrong with team culture atm. Something went horribly wrong on that Sri Lanka tour and his being sent home in the early part of the ODI series (and before the T20s) suggested something had gone wrong behind the scenes with his leadership

Even when Oz were dominating last summer Smith struck me as too immature for the job – came across as rather petulant and his body language is the worst I’ve ever seen from any Test captain. I doubt they’ll sack him now but he’s probably got to the end of the summer to turn things around.

That may be a reasonable point, though I don't agree with it. But you've got your school of thought that he's too immature and demonstrative, and another school fo thought that he should be more demonstrative and kick some arse publicly. Point is, it's the batting. That's all there is to it.

 

[Blocky]

You guys don't lack for talent, you have amazing talent in the side, but it's a lack of application. That to me is a coach/captain issue.

 

[Blocky]

Day Night test with the likes of Philander will be really interesting.

 

[Starfighter]

It's all about the Ashes. These defeats don't really count


Australia face short-term pain for Ashes success - Ponting | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

For Pete's sake! There's eight other countries out there. I'm pretty sure the public will notice if we can't beat any of them. This treating of the Ashes (and world cup) as the only targets that matter is so condescending and damaging.

 

[Starfighter]

You guys don't lack for talent, you have amazing talent in the side, but it's a lack of application. That to me is a coach/captain issue.

Also the fact that most of the talent is a) in bowling and b) always injured?

 

[Burgey]

For all of the above, he comes across like a selfish cricketer who cares more about his own performance rather than what the team is doing - i.e not shepherding the tail end in the first innings, talking about how he decided to combat the bowling, etc.

I could be wrong, but I've never seen an Australian side perform this badly (5 tests in a row) since maybe the pre-Border 80s.

That's what Steve Waugh used to do.

I don't see any evidence for his being selfish in his approach to the game. It's an easy job when the side performs, it's a hard one when it doesn't. You can hear the disappointment in his voice and see it on his face. He's hardly striking me as a Boycott who'd rather make 50 in a losing side than a duck in a winning one.

 

[Starfighter]

Hell, the tail enders were running to put themselves on strike. Smith should have shown more tactical nous, but he shouldn't take all the blame.

 

[OverratedSanity]

That's what Steve Waugh used to do.

I don't see any evidence for his being selfish in his approach to the game. It's an easy job when the side performs, it's a hard one when it doesn't. You can hear the disappointment in his voice and see it on his face. He's hardly striking me as a Boycott who'd rather make 50 in a losing side than a duck in a winning one.

Yeah, he's not Chanders-esque red-inker or anything but don't think not shielding the tail when the ball was nipping around like it was in the first innings was smart. Expecting the tail to survive that bowling for too long was silly.

 

[Blocky]

Also the fact that most of the talent is a) in bowling and b) always injured?

We'd kill for people the likes of Khawaja or Warner to come through our cricketing scene in NZ; NZ is all about application of limited talent, Khawaja's pure talent level would be up with some of the best we've had.

That's what Steve Waugh used to do.

I don't see any evidence for his being selfish in his approach to the game. It's an easy job when the side performs, it's a hard one when it doesn't. You can hear the disappointment in his voice and see it on his face. He's hardly striking me as a Boycott who'd rather make 50 in a losing side than a duck in a winning one.

Steve Waugh also coincided with an era of change, and although he did have the likes of McGrath/Warne - it was the dominance his team showed with the bat that made them as good as they were. He himself was a brilliant #5 and got a lot out of the tail end batting there, you're right, he didn't take the strike from them, but they sure showed a lot more application when he was batting with them than they have under Smith.