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***Official*** Australia in South Africa + South Africa in Australia 2016/17

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Just bcos you don't understand it doesn't mean I don't have an argument.
Oh no, I understand it perfectly - umpire judged it was going on to hit the stumps so gave it out accordingly. Smith reviewed it (as is his right) and it was shown to be hitting the stumps thus indicating that the umpire was correct in his judgement.

Explain to me what your argument is in terms of actually having one rather then making up things like "benefit of the doubt" when by the sheer nature of sticking the finger up, the umpire is showing that he has no doubt.
 

LegionOfBrad

International Debutant
The umpire should have given the benefit to the batsman who was half way down the wicket meaning there was no way he could tell if all of pitch, bounce, angle or turn would see the ball hit the stumps. Then if the bowler was confident he should have asked for drs clarification. That it was shown to be hitting was down to dumb luck not anything to do with the umps "years of experience" or what ever voodoo you reckon the umpire has.



I did. I think thats a kind description. Unkind but fair would call it hypocrisy.



Just bcos you don't understand it doesn't mean I don't have an argument.

Hit him inline. Hitting the stumps. On your bike son.
 

the big bambino

International Captain
Oh no, I understand it perfectly - umpire judged it was going on to hit the stumps so gave it out accordingly. Smith reviewed it (as is his right) and it was shown to be hitting the stumps thus indicating that the umpire was correct in his judgement.

Explain to me what your argument is in terms of actually having one rather then making up things like "benefit of the doubt" when by the sheer nature of sticking the finger up, the umpire is showing that he has no doubt.
(Sorry to impose on other posters so I will make this the last one on the topic even if you, or other(s) respond.)

You say I have no argument but you understand it perfectly ... Ok.

Fwiw I'm not complaining bcos the dismissed batsman was Australian. I've never said that and if you have insisted on that with certainty that is your projection. I've commented before on lbw in light of DRS with a concern the changes are not representing the original intention of the LBW law.

Marc many errors are made bcos people had no doubt they were doing the right thing beforehand. I mean no one deliberately goes out to make a mistake right. Chappelli would often say that if you were the batsman would you be happy with that lbw decn? Imagine if there wasn't DRS. Most would be laughing at such a decn however certain the ump thought himself to be. Its relevant bcos at the time of decn the ump doesn't have DRS to assist him. You offer ball tracker as proof of his decn. You don't see the irony? He doesn't have that available at the time! He has to fall back on actual and conventional guidelines to assess lbw. And so far down the wicket you just can't. If the conditions for out aren't met then you know where the benefit should lie.

Btw no need to put benefit of doubt in scare quotes as if I invented the concept for the benefit of my argument. It follows from whether an umpire can ascertain if the conditions for out have been clearly met. You are being disingenuous to downplay it.
 
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CapeTown Guy

School Boy/Girl Captain
In the pre-DRS era there have been countless more ridiculous LBW decisions go either way. That is an undeniable fact.

I find it utterly ridiculous that this argument over the Smith dismissal continues. Yes it was not a decision many umpires would have given, but if one looks at the facts Dar's decision was vindicated, even if the original decision he made was a marginal one.

Swallow the bitter pill and move on with your lives, it will be better for it.
 

cnerd123

likes this
Part of me is really enjoying watching TJB Blocky etc go at it, but part of me is concerned we're scaring off all the new SA fans
 

91Jmay

International Coach
(Sorry to impose on other posters so I will make this the last one on the topic even if you, or other(s) respond.)

You say I have no argument but you understand it perfectly ... Ok.

Fwiw I'm not complaining bcos the dismissed batsman was Australian. I've never said that and if you have insisted on that with certainty that is your projection. I've commented before on lbw in light of DRS with a concern the changes are not representing the original intention of the LBW law.

Marc many errors are made bcos people had no doubt they were doing the right thing beforehand. I mean no one deliberately goes out to make a mistake right. Chappelli would often say that if you were the batsman would you be happy with that lbw decn? Imagine if there wasn't DRS. Most would be laughing at such a decn however certain the ump thought himself to be. Its relevant bcos at the time of decn the ump doesn't have DRS to assist him. You offer ball tracker as proof of his decn. You don't see the irony? He doesn't have that available at the time! He has to fall back on actual and conventional guidelines to assess lbw. And so far down the wicket you just can't. If the conditions for out aren't met then you know where the benefit should lie.

Btw no need to put benefit of doubt in scare quotes as if I invented the concept for the benefit of my argument. It follows from whether an umpire can ascertain if the conditions for out have been clearly met. You are being disingenuous to downplay it.
All you've succeeded in proving is that Ian Chappell has some terrible ideas.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
You say I have no argument but you understand it perfectly ... Ok.
Yes I do, and you've not given any argument that contradicts the facts:

Man hit on pad.
Umpire considers it was going onto hit stumps from his vantage point, with his experience of Cricket around the world and of the pitch in question and gives him out.
Man objects and calls for a review whereby the technology shows that the umpire was right.
Someone watching on TV with a different angle and without the in depth knowledge or experience of the umpire decides the umpire was wrong to give the man out in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

Fwiw I'm not complaining bcos the dismissed batsman was Australian. I've never said that and if you have insisted on that with certainty that is your projection. I've commented before on lbw in light of DRS with a concern the changes are not representing the original intention of the LBW law.
Funny how you protest that you're not complaining about it because of the batsman's nationality yet nobody else has even hinted at that at any point in the discussion. To quote Shakespeare - "Methinks the lady doth protest too much".

I'd love you to explain how DRS has made changes that are not representing the original intention of the LBW law (which is surely to give batsmen out when they stop the ball with their leg (or other parts of the body such as the shoulder in extreme cases) and by doing so prevent the ball from hitting the stumps) as all DRS is doing is showing that things have been done wrong in the past and are now being done more accurately. Unless of course you're going to claim to know that the original lawmakers intended something different from what they wrote down that is?

Marc many errors are made bcos people had no doubt they were doing the right thing beforehand. I mean no one deliberately goes out to make a mistake right.
No, and in this case the umpire didn't make a mistake so what's the problem?

Chappelli would often say that if you were the batsman would you be happy with that lbw decn?
What batsman is ever happy about an LBW decision given against him?

Imagine if there wasn't DRS. Most would be laughing at such a decn however certain the ump thought himself to be. Its relevant bcos at the time of decn the ump doesn't have DRS to assist him.
But we do have DRS and that has shown that in the past umpires have been wrong whereas now these errors are being eradicated, hence the umpire making the right decision this time.

You offer ball tracker as proof of his decn. You don't see the irony?
No I don't Alanis, but I'm going to guess that it's something like having 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife.

He doesn't have that available at the time! He has to fall back on actual and conventional guidelines to assess lbw. And so far down the wicket you just can't. If the conditions for out aren't met then you know where the benefit should lie.
Except he also has years of experience, a better viewing angle, knowledge of the pitch to assist him in making that assessment, rather than watching it on TV. In his mind all the conditions were met for LBW to be given and so he gave the batsman out.

Btw no need to put benefit of doubt in scare quotes as if I invented the concept for the benefit of my argument. It follows from whether an umpire can ascertain if the conditions for out have been clearly met. You are being disingenuous to downplay it.
I put benefit of doubt into quotation marks because it is not part of any law and clearly in this instance there was no doubt, hence he gave him out. If he doubted that the batsman was out, he'd not have given it but he didn't so for you, by trying to assert that he did have doubt, are the one being disingenuous.
 

Tec15

First Class Debutant
In the pre-DRS era there have been countless more ridiculous LBW decisions go either way. That is an undeniable fact.
Yep, especially the ones given by Hair and co to visiting teams. The Aussie fans sang a very different tune in those days. Only whinge when they are losing.
 

aussie tragic

International Captain
Can't believe we're still talking about the last test umpire decisions...move on and talk about how far Australia improves with no Marshes in the Test side and hopefully Bird will be selected for his bowling skills above his batting skills to create an awesome Aussie side :)
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Perhaps we should talk about how both of the first two days are going to be markedly truncated or washed out, judging from the weather forecast.
 

morgieb

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Perhaps we should talk about how both of the first two days are going to be markedly truncated or washed out, judging from the weather forecast.
Third will have some rain too.

Unless someone dramatically ****s up or it's a 2011-esque pitch, looks like draw city.
 

Stefan9

International Debutant
Looks like our bunny Mitch will play. Seems stark is on the verge of getting injured per Lehman so doudt aus would go in with only 4 bowlers.
 

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