South African Domestic Season 2016/17

[SeamUp]

After all your talk of the talent drain from SA of our cricketers, I saw Neil Manthorp tweeted this morning that the player of the tournament in Australia's Matador Cup was one Marnus Labuschagne.

https://twitter.com/NeilManthorp/status/790900170296815616

Remember when he scored a 100 on debut I think the full story of his father having to go over from Potch for mining work. His first day of school he said he couldn't speak English.

The one we probably really will be disappointed about is Bradley Hope. Was playing u19 week at 14 years of age and played again at 15 but left for WA and in the local newspaper they said the father got a business opportunity but it was also for Bradley to get every opportunity as a cricketer to make it to the top due to certain reasons. There was massive buzz around Hope. Like all of the really top one's before him. In 20 months he has already made WA 2nd XI at 17 years of age. Another young all-rounder.

 

[StephenZA]

Top white players are still getting the opportunities... if you are that good you will still make it. QDK is a good example. What quotas are going to do is potentially destroy our FC system where players who could have been professional FC players but not national will be pushed out, and standards will drop.

But ultimately people and families with opportunities are not leaving because of quotas.... it is all the rest of the problems that cause people to leave SA at the moment, Quotas are nothing but fluff and icing on the real issues.

 

[SeamUp]

Top white players are still getting the opportunities... if you are that good you will still make it. QDK is a good example. What quotas are going to do is potentially destroy our FC system where players who could have been professional FC players but not national will be pushed out, and standards will drop.

But ultimately people and families with opportunities are not leaving because of quotas.... it is all the rest of the problems that cause people to leave SA at the moment, Quotas are nothing but fluff and icing on the real issues.

It's funny that they all are saying it.

What about the players that need opportunities and struggle early on but get that vote of confidence and then produce the goods ? Plenty like that in our FC system who are in Proteas system or pushing for Proteas and SA 'A' selections.

You're deluding yourself.

 

[the big bambino]

Marnus was a bit lucky to get that award imo. Good player though. From the outside I get the impression quotas are a factor to be exploited by country's like Australia to attract away your good to best white talent. I also suspect the other factors you are referring to are circumstances affecting whites and a growing antagonism and resentment to them in SA. Hopefully Australia and others can find then opportunities to get them to emigrate. SA pursuing its quota and equalisation policies, that effectively discriminate against people bcos of their colour, will only have itself to blame.

 

[StephenZA]

It's funny that they all are saying it.

What about the players that need opportunities and struggle early on but get that vote of confidence and then produce the goods ? Plenty like that in our FC system who are in Proteas system or pushing for Proteas and SA 'A' selections.

You're deluding yourself.

Are you saying all the new young white players are saying that quotas are why they are leaving? I`m not saying we are not losing players or that some of those players could not have become internationals given enough experience and time.

What I am saying is that the quota system is secondary to the reason many of these players leave. Most of these players will never or unlikely to make a national team in Aus, Eng etc where they are heading. At 15 years of age you will not be thinking about that, but you and your family may be thinking about a better more stable life elsewhere given the opportunity. How many of these players if given a local franchise chance/contract or given a lucrative English contract would stay in SA right now, regardless of quotas, with all the other issues in SA.

 

[StephenZA]

Marnus was a bit lucky to get that award imo. Good player though. From the outside I get the impression quotas are a factor to be exploited by country's like Australia to attract away your good to best white talent. I also suspect the other factors you are referring to are circumstances affecting whites and a growing antagonism and resentment to them in SA. Hopefully Australia and others can find then opportunities to get them to emigrate. SA pursuing its quota and equalisation policies, that effectively discriminate against people bcos of their colour, will only have itself to blame.

The quota and equalisation policies are needed, and most white people in SA recognize this.... it is the implementation and manner of these policies that is the problem. But that is the complaint across everything in SA right now, implementation and governance in SA is falling apart quickly in a very scary manner, faster than many people predicted after what was for the first 10 years problematic but relatively stable governance.

But this is not the SA politics thread....

 

[SeamUp]

Are you saying all the new young white players are saying that quotas are why they are leaving? I`m not saying we are not losing players or that some of those players could not have become internationals given enough experience and time.

What I am saying is that the quota system is secondary to the reason many of these players leave. Most of these players will never or unlikely to make a national team in Aus, Eng etc where they are heading. At 15 years of age you will not be thinking about that, but you and your family may be thinking about a better more stable life elsewhere given the opportunity. How many of these players if given a local franchise chance/contract or given a lucrative English contract would stay in SA right now, regardless of quotas, with all the other issues in SA.

I'm starting to wonder with you.

So everything is fine and we don't lose extra-ordinary amounts of talent compared to the rest ? There are poorer countries in the world that don't lose as many players as us !

1) We are losing players both as teenagers and post school. Keaton Jennings being another recent example of former SA u19 captain leaving and now in the England Lions set-up. Who is next ? I can tell you now how bad he wanted to play for SA so monetary only had a part at a certain point if you get my drift.
2) These players should be made to feel comfortable as part of the cricketing system but there seems to be a guilt of producing good white cricketers now.
3) If these players stay it could take them 3 or 4 years to come to terms with TOP LEVEL franchise cricket but at the end of the tunnel they could be pushing for higher honours.
4) Look at the piece above on Nofal, Price, Obus Pienaar leaving for New Zealand and their reasons. All former SA u19 cricketers and leaving post school.
5) Look at my list above to see all former SA u19 cricketers leaving the country. Look at our results at SA u19 level of recent times. Never been so bad.
6) You think it's fine relying on the top crop. But I can tell you now - eventhough they are tops talent wise , there is no guarantees they will succeed at the highest level. Then who do we go to ? Guys averaging 25 with the bat against guys averaging 40 with the ball?
7) In 2014-15 there were 8 scores under 150 in 4-day cricket - Last season 2015 (16) there was 16 with the new quota rules and this season after 3 rounds there are already 5 scores under 150 which includes a 57. These are stats from Keith Lane and Shaun Pollock who is stating his concerns.
8) Stable life. Great. Why can't SA have it while work is done behind the scenes and the window dressing stops ?

 

[SeamUp]

Marnus was a bit lucky to get that award imo. Good player though. From the outside I get the impression quotas are a factor to be exploited by country's like Australia to attract away your good to best white talent. I also suspect the other factors you are referring to are circumstances affecting whites and a growing antagonism and resentment to them in SA. Hopefully Australia and others can find then opportunities to get them to emigrate. SA pursuing its quota and equalisation policies, that effectively discriminate against people bcos of their colour, will only have itself to blame.

Certainly. In time I will have to be supporting a team who can look after themselves. SA can at this moment still but when players start to leave or when our next batch of top young players don't get the opportunity to play with AB de Villiers and Dale Steyn because only 5 white players can play then will be a time I will support the teams these players leave for.

 

[StephenZA]

I'm starting to wonder with you.

So everything is fine and we don't lose extra-ordinary amounts of talent compared to the rest ? There are poorer countries in the world that don't lose as many players as us !

I have said no such thing anywhere in my posts.

1) We are losing players both as teenagers and post school. Keaton Jennings being another recent example of former SA u19 captain leaving and now in the England Lions set-up. Who is next ? I can tell you now how bad he wanted to play for SA so monetary only had a part at a certain point if you get my drift.

8) Stable life. Great. Why can't SA have it while work is done behind the scenes and the window dressing stops ?

I think we are talking at cross purposes, I don't like the quota system. But I recognize some of it validity and reasons for being done, even if it is being incorrectly implemented and managed, and also being used as window dressing for political reasons.

But the quota system in cricket is a small little pimple on the problems in SA, quota or no quota in cricket we would still be losing players to overseas at a damning rate; I understand we talk about quotas in the cricket thread and thus that is the main focus. I am just trying to say that if quotas were the only issue we cold possibly overcome it; however, SA is in a very bad unstable state at the moment politically, security wise and financially. Those are the reasons people leave SA across all sectors at the moment. Not just because they can make more money but because they can make a better more stable life for themselves however much they love the country they were born in.

 

[Marius]

I remember reading a quote by an administrator in an article re: these issues in SA, and one of the reasons they want to expand the franchise system is that they want to provide more places for young white guys to play.

I don't think Aus will be looking to poach too many of our guys, the real threat is going to be England and NZ.

SeamUp do you know what happened to Ryan Rickleton? I know he played club cricket in NZ for a while but do you know if he stayed there or came back to SA?

 

[sonnench]

The quota and equalisation policies are needed, and most white people in SA recognize this.... it is the implementation and manner of these policies that is the problem. But that is the complaint across everything in SA right now, implementation and governance in SA is falling apart quickly in a very scary manner, faster than many people predicted after what was for the first 10 years problematic but relatively stable governance.

But this is not the SA politics thread....

Literally not the case at all.

 

[SeamUp]

Literally not the case at all.

Exactly.

Good to see you back Sonnench. Haven't seen you & Mr Prez around in a while.

 

[SeamUp]

I remember reading a quote by an administrator in an article re: these issues in SA, and one of the reasons they want to expand the franchise system is that they want to provide more places for young white guys to play.

I don't think Aus will be looking to poach too many of our guys, the real threat is going to be England and NZ.

SeamUp do you know what happened to Ryan Rickleton? I know he played club cricket in NZ for a while but do you know if he stayed there or came back to SA?

Going to be difficult deciding those new teams and what about the players good enough to play more but not taken by the new team as deciding to use their existing players ? It could be a tough one.

I probably would have said that a few years ago about Australia but we've seen in recent times someone like Johan Botha make the move.

Rickelton is back in South Africa. Opening the batting in 50-over cricket for Gauteng & keeping wicket. Gauteng and to a certain extent WP have been dominant at u19 cricket weeks that there is so much young talent in the Gauteng team from their u19 side at the moment.

 

[SeamUp]

Some early team news

Other squads for the games starting today.

COBRAS ending up deciding to let Puttick keep.
Ins : Ontong , Kleinveldt, Qwabe
Out : Vilas , B.Hendricks, Moreki

Team : Puttick (wk), Ramela , Hamza, van Zyl, Smith, Ontong, Mgijima, R.Kleinveldt, Piedt, Paterson, Qwabe

KNIGHTS were basically the same. Just Sesele out and Bodibe in. Werner Coetsee also back into squad.
Erlank, Bodibe, De Bruyn, Miller, Second (wk), Mnyanda, Robbie P, Coetsee, De Lange, Olivier, Van Schalkwyk, Budaza, Du Preez

Lions squad: Reeza Hendricks, Rassie van der Dussen, Dominic Hendricks (captain), Nicky van den Bergh, Yaseen Valli, Dwaine Pretorius, Mangaliso Mosehle, Wiaan Mulder, Aaron Phangiso, Hardus Viljoen, Aya Miyoli, Bjorn Fortuin, Nono Pongolo, Sean Jamison.

Ins: Valli , Phangiso
Out : Rapulana


Warriors squad: Colin Ackermann, Andrew Birch, Clyde Fortuin, Ayabulelo Gqamane, Simon Harmer (captain), Sisanda Magala, Edward Moore, Lesiba Ngoepe, Gihahn Cloete, Michael Price, Tladi Bokako, Yaseen Vallie, David White.

Ins: Gqamane , Cloete, Bokako, White
Outs: Nqolo, Seyibokwe (family bereavement) ,Walters (paternity leave), Fojela

Titans are the same squad

Markram, Kuhn, Mokoena, Behardien, Davids, Adams, Klaasen
Wiese
von Berg
Richards, Siboto, Ngidi, Dala

 

[TT Boy]

Is de Lange injured (again)? Shame if he is as he started the season well with ball and surprisingly with the bat.

 

[Marius]

Going to be difficult deciding those new teams and what about the players good enough to play more but not taken by the new team as deciding to use their existing players ? It could be a tough one.

I probably would have said that a few years ago about Australia but we've seen in recent times someone like Johan Botha make the move.

Rickelton is back in South Africa. Opening the batting in 50-over cricket for Gauteng & keeping wicket. Gauteng and to a certain extent WP have been dominant at u19 cricket weeks that there is so much young talent in the Gauteng team from their u19 side at the moment.

That's good about Rickelton, let's hope we can keep him here.

I think Botha is the exception that possibly proves the rule.

 

[sonnench]

Exactly.

Good to see you back Sonnench. Haven't seen you & Mr Prez around in a while.

Thanks SeamUp.

Still browse often, mainly for your domestic updates. Just been busy, for two years .

Will be posting more now though. Especially with the series against Aus starting.

 

[sonnench]

Couple random thoughts/questions:

Really hope Chad Bowes produces the goods on the NZ domestic scene, always liked him.

What are your thoughts on Clyde Fortuin SeamUp? I remember there was quite a big buzz around him, and while I know he's still a youngster, haven't seen too much.

Is Mulder as good as advertised? Because man, i'm excited by what i've seen and read. South Africa need a player like him so badly.

With Puttick and Second keeping for their franchises, it does seem our stocks are quite low in that department. No obvious backup for QDK. Never been a Vilas fan.

 

[TT Boy]

Couple random thoughts/questions:

Really hope Chad Bowes produces the goods on the NZ domestic scene, always liked him.

What are your thoughts on Clyde Fortuin SeamUp? I remember there was quite a big buzz around him, and while I know he's still a youngster, haven't seen too much.

Is Mulder as good as advertised? Because man, i'm excited by what i've seen and read. South Africa need a player like him so badly.

With Puttick and Second keeping for their franchises, it does seem our stocks are quite low in that department. No obvious backup for QDK. Never been a Vilas fan.

Averages more for Canterbury so far than he did for Natal but 14 innings so far in NZ in FC cricket and only one fifty made.
Surprised Obus Pienaar has not got a professional gig in NZ yet. Scored a double hundred in franchise cricket and was highly rated when he was an all-rounder.

 

[Marius]

Just a random thought. What happens when someone like Vilas gets called to Australia. He doesn't have a national contract so his employee is the Cobras franchise or Western Province Cricket. Do CSA pay his salary for this time, and reimburse WP/Cobras for losing one of their senior players for some of their franchise games?