***Official*** New Zealand in India 2016

[Zinzan]

This two might as well keep batting until lunch tomorrow and have a go at the WR, probably won't get a better chance. I still think Ashwin and Screamer will roll us twice pretty easily, even if they only had 2 and 1/2 days.

Pitch presumably expected to help spin as the match goes on.

 

[weldone]

Rahane in the 50-average club

 

[OverratedSanity]

Rahane needs 34 more runs to average more than KW.

 

[Zinzan]

I'm trying to think of any other country currently that wouldn't have lost this series 3-0 to India assuming lost all 3 tosses and had to bowl first on these pitches, and i'm really struggling to think of any & I include Pakistan, so maybe we're not all that bad

 

[Zinzan]

Rahane needs 34 more runs to average more than KW.

And around 2300 to average more than Bradman.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I'm trying to think of any other country currently that wouldn't have lost this series 3-0 to India assuming lost all 3 tosses and had to bowl first on these pitches, and i'm really struggling to think of any & I include Pakistan, so maybe we're not all that bad

Pakistan most definitely wouldn't. The toss hasn't really affected things as much as you've been making out.

Also, did bowling first actually even hurt you in the second test? Those were unquestionably excellent fast bowling conditions you got on day 1.

 

[Zinzan]

Nah I think India would have beaten Pakistan 3-0 assuming they won every toss. And the toss is more than a tiny advantage on SC pitches. Not saying NZ would have won if they won 1 or 2 tosses, but let's not pretend it's not a reasonably major advantage on these tracks. Not enough to change to fortunes between these two sides, but significant none the less.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I'm trying to think of any other country currently that wouldn't have lost this series 3-0 to India assuming lost all 3 tosses and had to bowl first on these pitches, and i'm really struggling to think of any & I include Pakistan, so maybe we're not all that bad

I wouldn't be feeling too down as a Kiwi. If This India team toured NZ and kept getting sent in to bat on greentops, in overcast conditions, they'd probably lose every game by an innings and 200 runs.

When you go back through recent history, it really is quite unusual for an Asian side to win away from Asia, and vice versa

 

[OverratedSanity]

Nah I think India would have beaten Pakistan 3-0 assuming they won every toss. And the toss is more than a tiny advantage on SC pitches. Not saying NZ would have won if they won 1 or 2 tosses, but let's not pretend it's not a reasonably major advantage on these tracks. Not enough to change to fortunes between these two sides, but significant none the less.

It's nowhere near enough of a big advantage that Pakistan, a team much more suited to these conditions than NZ,, would get whitewashed. Australia lost 4-0 in 2013 despite winning all 4 tosses. England won 2-1, and in both matches that they won, India won the toss and batted first. And those pitches spun plenty too.

Also, I maintain that bowling first in the second test wasn't a disadvantage to NZ at all.

 

[Burner]

New Zealand problem has been their inability to finish off the tail. They would have still lost 3 - 0 even if they won all toss imo.

 

[Zinzan]

I wouldn't be feeling too down as a Kiwi. If This India team toured NZ and kept getting sent in to bat on greentops, in overcast conditions, they'd probably lose every game by an innings and 200 runs.

When you go back through recent history, it really is quite unusual for an Asian side to win away from Asia, and vice versa

Funny you say that, we had a stinking greentop the last time we were here, but NZ lost that toss & only managed to still win the series because of the BMac triple hundred and the WR partnership with Watling.

But yeah, as a touring side already up against it, you need a little lady luck.

 

[Shri]

I wouldn't be feeling too down as a Kiwi. If This India team toured NZ and kept getting sent in to bat on greentops, in overcast conditions, they'd probably lose every game by an innings and 200 runs.

When you go back through recent history, it really is quite unusual for an Asian side to win away from Asia, and vice versa

There are so many things wrong with this statement that I don't know where to start.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I wouldn't be feeling too down as a Kiwi. If This India team toured NZ and kept getting sent in to bat on greentops, in overcast conditions, they'd probably lose every game by an innings and 200 runs.

When you go back through recent history, it really is quite unusual for an Asian side to win away from Asia, and vice versa

Why do people keep making this inaccurate assumption though. India would get smashed by an innings and 200 if the pitch has good bounce, some seam movement for the quicks, but which requires good bowling to get wickets. If we get a greentop, it just reduces the gap in quality between the foreign seamers and ours and brings India into the game and gives India a real chance.

Let's go through some of India's best wins overseas in the last 10-15 years:

Headingley 2002: Seaming conditions, extremely overcast sky. India bat first, India win
Joburg 2006. Greentop. India bat first. India win
Durban 2011: Greentop. India bat first. India win
Lord's 2014: Greentop. India bat first. India win


There's something common to all of those I think.

But put a standard test pitch in front of Indian bowlers and they stand no chance.

 

[Zinzan]

It's nowhere near enough of a big advantage that Pakistan, a team much more suited to these conditions than NZ,, would get whitewashed. Australia lost 4-0 in 2013 despite winning all 4 tosses. England won 2-1, and in both matches that they won, India won the toss and batted first. And those pitches spun plenty too.

Also, I maintain that bowling first in the second test wasn't a disadvantage to NZ at all.

We'll just have to disagree, I think Pakistan and India are even enough sides that had one of the sides won all 3 tosses, it would have been enough to win all 3 tests to zip, and I certainly disagree with you that bowling first was the overall better thing to do in the 2nd test.... No even close, that was doing all sorts of things as that match wore on.

 

[Daemon]

We'll just have to disagree, I think Pakistan and India are even enough sides that had one of the sides won all 3 tosses, it would have been enough to win all 3 tests to zip, and I certainly disagree with you that bowling first was the overall better thing to do in the 2nd test.... No even close, that was doing all sorts of things as that match wore on.

Didn't the pitch misbehave a lot in India's 2nd innings but somehow ease out a bit when NZ played the last innings?
Genuine question, didn't watch alot of it.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I hope in years to come if this partnership is mentioned that WAGner's absence is mentioned. Should be 2nd bloke picked in any NZ test team imo.

 

[Zinzan]

These two are only 120 away from the all-time 4th wicket partnership.

 

[OverratedSanity]

We'll just have to disagree, I think Pakistan and India are even enough sides that had one of the sides won all 3 tosses, it would have been enough to win all 3 tests to zip, and I certainly disagree with you that bowling first was the overall better thing to do in the 2nd test.... No even close, that was doing all sorts of things as that match wore on.

Sure there was lots of inconsistent bounce, but are you saying the seam and swing Boult and Henry got on day 1 didn't help you get a good start?

 

[Zinzan]

Didn't the pitch misbehave a lot in India's 2nd innings but somehow ease out a bit when NZ played the last innings?
Genuine question, didn't watch alot of it.

Noooo, lol, It was ridiculous towards the end. Latham and Nicholls had a lot of luck in their 2 wicket stand, and once broken, NZ were cleaned up in no time at all. No batsman was ever going to last long on days 4 or 5 on that. Kohli had the right tactic during his 45 on day 3, which was to chance his arm, because you never knew when you were going to get that ball without your name on it,

 

[Zinzan]

Sure there was lots of inconsistent bounce, but are you saying the seam and swing Boult and Henry got on day 1 didn't help you get a good start?

Not relative to the overall advantage of batting first, no.