***Official*** New Zealand in India 2016

[BeeGee]

If either Guppy or Latham need to be replaced for reasons of fitness or form, my guess is that Watling moves up to open and Ronchi takes over the gloves. (That way you've saved on the extra plane ticket).

That would be awful. Just awful.

 

[SteveNZ]

Trouble with stacking the batting is none of Neesh, Santner and Craig offer much in terms of wicket-taking ability (unless conditions really suit, in the case of the two spinners), and they aren't likely to keep the runs down either. If any of them had Vettori's or even (NJ) Astle's capacity for drying the runs up such a combination would be worth looking at. Would much rather play Southee (who is unlikely to be dropped anyway) or Sodhi and put the onus on them to pick up wickets. Or Bracewell, if batting deep is a must.

Strikes me that in recent times Wagner has in fact been playing the Vettori role of strike AND stock bowler. Most economical bowler in South Africa - who would've thought?

The reasons Wagner has been so successful and the reason he will continue to be picked - over any seamer in the side barring Boult if he continues to return to form after injury - is his ability to bowl to a plan. Every time Neil bowls, he has a distinct plan to either get someone out or dry up runs, and is able to deliver on it. I've had to change my opinion significantly about this guy, I used to think he was a lacquer-basher that spoiled the ball for everyone else and had no pace nor bounce to worry anyone at international level.

I rate Southee at his peak or near upon it but his inability to bowl outside conditions that are absolutely cherry ripe for him or offer anything near in the best interests of the team with the bat is something that infuriates me, probably his captain and a lot of other people. Look at Tim's career summary. Debuts well and becomes the next big thing, dominates the ODI arena as well and is ensconced in the side permanently. Averages 55, 38 and 42 for the next 3 calendar years until he is dropped. Comes back and absolutely dominates for 3 years, becomes the golden boy. Averages 37 and 46 in the years following. He did it in the World Cup too - knocked over England then did SFA for the rest of the tournament. He's a highly skilled guy but he has almost zero ticker, and is quite happy existing in a comfort zone where his position is safe but his career numbers/NZ's fortunes are not particularly helped by his lack of desire to be a leader and a holder of our fortunes.

 

[Prince EWS]

Do you have a problem with it in this instance, Cribbage? I know you were dead against it in the past, but I guess you've seen Ronchi hundreds against McGill and Krejza at the SCG and stuff, and also how little deftness and nous is required to dominate spin on Plunket Shield pitches.



In the spirit of Kruger van Wyk's jaunty 71 on the 2012 tour (after Hesson demanded a more offensive approach from the whole team, which became an attempt to lay 360 in a day on the Indians) I've decided I'm going to accept Ronchi sightings here. He may well be a sickening 20-30 runs better than Will Young in these conditions, with his expert cutting and pulling of big turn that's dropped a fraction short. Certainly better than rainbow unicorn fantasy Jeet Raval would be.

Yeah I don't have a big problem with it here; that post was specifically relating to his selection as a backup batsman in England. He's better against spin than he is against swing bowling, and the middle order batting depth isn't what it was when I wrote that post last year either. I'd pick a not-quite-fit-to-bowl-yet Anderson ahead of him but I'd struggle to come up with much else.

 

[BeeGee]

Stack the batting (better tail than England)


Top 5 same as SAF tests

6. Neesh
7. BJ
8. Santner
9. Craig
10. Wagner
11. Boult

The other option would be to open with Craig and bat Guptill at 9. They bring similar qualities to the team.

I'd say it's more a case of stacking the all-rounders and opening the batting with a bowler who can bat, which is the NZ way.

Craig
Latham
Williamson
Taylor
Nichols
Neesham
BJ
Santner
Bracewell
Wagner
Boult

We just need Anderson back and we can go full "Jack of all trades, master of none."

 

[BeeGee]

I think we've been going about this whole test opener thing all wrong. We have a smaller pool of talent to select from than almost any other test team, so logically, if we select our openers based on the same criteria as they do we will have inferior openers.

We need a different set of criteria. I suggest, the ability to reverse sweep for six. Now, who could we pick...

 

[Zinzan]

The reasons Wagner has been so successful and the reason he will continue to be picked - over any seamer in the side barring Boult if he continues to return to form after injury - is his ability to bowl to a plan. Every time Neil bowls, he has a distinct plan to either get someone out or dry up runs, and is able to deliver on it. I've had to change my opinion significantly about this guy, I used to think he was a lacquer-basher that spoiled the ball for everyone else and had no pace nor bounce to worry anyone at international level.

I rate Southee at his peak or near upon it but his inability to bowl outside conditions that are absolutely cherry ripe for him or offer anything near in the best interests of the team with the bat is something that infuriates me, probably his captain and a lot of other people. Look at Tim's career summary. Debuts well and becomes the next big thing, dominates the ODI arena as well and is ensconced in the side permanently. Averages 55, 38 and 42 for the next 3 calendar years until he is dropped. Comes back and absolutely dominates for 3 years, becomes the golden boy. Averages 37 and 46 in the years following. He did it in the World Cup too - knocked over England then did SFA for the rest of the tournament. He's a highly skilled guy but he has almost zero ticker, and is quite happy existing in a comfort zone where his position is safe but his career numbers/NZ's fortunes are not particularly helped by his lack of desire to be a leader and a holder of our fortunes.

Couldn't have said it better myself in regards to both your evolving view on Wagner (I think we all though that of him 3 years ago) & your observation about just how mentally 'soft' Tim Southee is.

For one of the seniors in the side, he hardly sends much of a message to the rest of the team about how to play with heart does he. Fortunately we have Wagner who more than makes up for his shortcomings in that area.

I'm actually trying to think of a mentally 'softer' cricketer (on the field) than Southee playing for NZ over the years; & apart from that gutless display from Jeets in SA a few years back, I'm really struggling.

 

[Gnske]

I'm actually trying to think of a mentally 'softer' cricketer (on the field) than Southee playing for NZ over the years; & apart from that gutless display from Jeets in SA a few years back, I'm really struggling.

Kanedaddy, last test match when he chose to bowl.

Actually in seriousness Latham getting out twice to the hook against Chameera last year was softer than a eunuch's cheeks.

 

[Zinzan]

Kanedaddy, last test match when he chose to bowl.

Lol this did really piss me off at the time, had defensiveness written all over it...

 

[honestbharani]

It has recently come to my attention that Rahul Dravid Jr has a man bun.

I'm not saying he should be dropped for it, but Dhawan has been in good form lately.

No can't do... Gotta drop Ishant first for it.

 

[SteveNZ]

Couldn't have said it better myself in regards to both your evolving view on Wagner (I think we all though that of him 3 years ago) & your observation about just how mentally 'soft' Tim Southee is.

For one of the seniors in the side, he hardly sends much of a message to the rest of the team about how to play with heart does he. Fortunately we have Wagner who more than makes up for his shortcomings in that area.

I'm actually trying to think of a mentally 'softer' cricketer (on the field) than Southee playing for NZ over the years; & apart from that gutless display from Jeets in SA a few years back, I'm really struggling.

I can't think of a mentally softer cricketer than Tim. Anyone as soft, or softer, than him with less talent would've had their cards marked to never play for NZ again. But our lack of depth over the years allows Tim to put in 1 or 2 good performances over 12-18 months to retain his spot permanently. It's absolutely outrageous that his name was ever linked with the captaincy or that he was allowed near vice-captaincy. He'll be very happy to coast along averaging 33 odd and 15 with the bat, when his talent befits mid to high 20s in both at least.

I hope Henry is allowed to develop and become a challenger for Tim's spot, as he has most of the tools to do everything Southee does and more.

 

[Flem274*]

I try not to judge this sort of thing too much but when even Howsie says Southee is a guy who will do the bare minimum to stay in the team then if that were true, that's a droppable offence in itself. That's a cancer you need to chemo.

 

[SteveNZ]

I try not to judge this sort of thing too much but when even Howsie says Southee is a guy who will do the bare minimum to stay in the team then if that were true, that's a droppable offence in itself. That's a cancer you need to chemo.

Homer - I mean Howsie - said that? How can he ever defend him, if that's true?

 

[Daemon]

Being very harsh on Southee. We don't know what he does behind the scenes. We don't know who tells him to bat the way he does.

 

[Gnske]

Being very harsh on Southee. We don't know what he does behind the scenes. We don't know who tells him to bat the way he does.

Who cares, I just hope his career dies as soon as possible.

 

[Athlai]

Who cares, I just hope his career dies as soon as possible.

That escalated quickly. A horrible thing to say about anyone. You may think he's a bit of a **** but that's a piss poor attitude.

 

[Zinzan]

Lol, It's Gnske Athlai, you should know better than to bite.

 

[Kippax]

Luke Ronchi in batting mix as Black Caps look for ways to combat Indian spin | Stuff.co.nz

He may not be a one-test wonder for much longer, Luke Ronchi, as the Black Caps seek creative ways to combat India's spin threat in the three-test cricket series.

New Zealand's 15-man squad flew out for the subcontinent on Sunday facing a daunting task of improving a sorry test record in India: played 31, won two, the most recent victory 28 years ago.

Coach Mike Hesson revealed Ronchi, Mitchell Santner and Henry Nicholls were all considered backup openers with Jeet Raval not required for this tour, and Ronchi's reputation as one of the best players of spin in the country would put the 35-year-old gloveman right in the frame as a specialist batsman.

Coach Mike Hesson is imploring opener Martin Guptill to play his natural game in India. "That message has been out there a long time".

"It's not your traditional New Zealand opener that you require over there; you need guys who can score against spin, find ways to rotate the strike and keep the game moving," Hesson said.

"It does [bring Ronchi into the mix]. Luke's there as a backup batsman as well as a backup keeper. His ability against spin certainly makes him an option."

 

[Zinzan]

Lol, yeah makes sense to send Raval home and instead invest into a player we might get 6 months out of, if we're lucky.

 

[Howsie]

Yuss, Santner opening, that's got to happen.

 

[SteveNZ]

Yuss, Santner opening, that's got to happen.

I saw this post and initially thought it said 'Howsie likes this'. No offence if there's any ever some taken by the way Howsie, love the passion. And your alter ego Jason when you ring up Radio Sport.

I'm all for radical thinking and if this group think Santner, or Ronchi or anyone else are better equipped to open in India than Jeet is, then let's see it. If Gup fails in Test 1 or at the latest Test 2, put the wheels in motion.