***Official*** New Zealand in India 2016

[Howe_zat]

Whoops

1. Guptill
2. Ronchi
3. Taylor
4. Nicholls
5. Neesham (2)
6. Bracewell (5)
7. Latham +
8. Santner
9. Southee (4)
10. Wagner (3)
11. Sodhi (1)

Now it's truly ready to punch above its weight

 

[Zinzan]

I think the difference in class was shown in those two innings during the last test. Wagner bowls okay and takes 5 for whatever, South Africa make 450 plus. Southee turns up in the second innings and South Africa are struggling at 120-7. That's the difference. Southee has the ability to completely kill a team, Boult likewise. Wagner on the other hand is sort of just taking wickets because somebody needs to but the opposing team will still always rack up massive scores. They're cheap wickets really.

Cheap wickets Wagner? You havin a laff? All bowlers get cheap wickets when the opposition have enough runs to start throwing the bat and gifting the odd one, Southee's been no different over the years. The truth of the matter is Wagner has been saving our bacon, or at least restoring some respectability when privileged Tim doesn't take wickets with the new nut and nobody else can take them.

You keep referring to Southee the match-winner, only you haven't cited one example in the last 2 years, after Hendrix provided you a couple for Wagner.

I'm not sure why you're totally overlooking what Southee's been serving up for more than two years now, you wouldn't pardon any other cricketer in the world outside your ND favourites for similar returns.

Tell me this. how many years in your eyes is it acceptable for Timmy to continue taking his wickets @ 40 as he has in the last 2 before you concede it's just not good enough? Statistically speaking (and I know you don't like stats in this case, surprise surprise), Wagner has been twice as good as Southee in the last 24 months. It's all well & good to have your favourites, but sometimes there's come a point where you have to be honest enough to concede he's not been good enough, and is a long off where he was in 2012-14.

 

[Howsie]

Southee and Boult took three each during that last innings in Bridgetown after we'd set the Windies 300 on the last day. Please tell me how Wagner and his one wicket get the credit for that?

 

[Daemon]

Wagner took 64-4 in the first innings to boulthees 140ish for 3.. #allinningsmatter

 

[hendrix]

#allinningsmatter

haha!

 

[morgieb]

I don't get why you can't pick all three of them.

 

[Daemon]

I think Howsie's just arguing that he should be picked 3rd, and not first as some have suggested.

 

[NZTailender]

Southee and Boult took three each during that last innings in Bridgetown after we'd set the Windies 300 on the last day. Please tell me how Wagner and his one wicket get the credit for that?

For setting them a total as high as 300 to begin with? WIndies had a first innings lead over us; Wagner took the wickets of Brathwaite, Bravo and Chanderpaul, 3 of the 4 most important batsmen in the lineup (Gayle was removed by Craig).

Wagner doesn't take those wickets, WIndies bat longer, score more, we have a lower target to defend in a smaller amount of time. I don't think you can say Wagner solely won us that much, but I wouldn't give credit to Boulthee either. It was a good team bowling effort, but Wagner was easily the best bowler in the first innings, which put us in a better position to win when bowling in the 2nd (4th) innings.

 

[NZTailender]

imo Boult is the first bowler picked. Even with injury he's been streets ahead of Southee in the last 18 months and offers a bit more with ball movement than Wagner.

 

[Bahnz]

For setting them a total as high as 300 to begin with? WIndies had a first innings lead over us; Wagner took the wickets of Brathwaite, Bravo and Chanderpaul, 3 of the 4 most important batsmen in the lineup (Gayle was removed by Craig).

Wagner doesn't take those wickets, WIndies bat longer, score more, we have a lower target to defend in a smaller amount of time. I don't think you can say Wagner solely won us that much, but I wouldn't give credit to Boulthee either. It was a good team bowling effort, but Wagner was easily the best bowler in the first innings, which put us in a better position to win when bowling in the 2nd (4th) innings.

Yeah, when Wagner came on to bowl in the first innings, WI were about 120/1 after NZ had been bundled out for 300 in the first innings. Southee and Boult were producing worse trash than Howsie has over the past couple pages, and the match was moving away from New Zealand very quickly. Then Wagner came on, tightened things up, kept the pressure on, and over the next session and a bit WI slumped to 240/5, from where NZ clawed their way back into the match. So yeah, while saying he won the game is going too far, he definitely completely changed the momentum of play (much as he did during the Eden Park India game) when all the other bowlers were looking totally ineffective and demoralised.

 

[honestbharani]

Lol... this is a first for me in CW. When you know who are your top 3 seamers and also know that most likely all of them will play, and still debate who is pick #1,2 and 3... Seen it all now on CW.

 

[Moss]

Guessing India will stick with the 5 bowlers lineup, including Jadeja, which they used for much of the South Africa series last year. Can see Ashwin being quite a factor with the bat in this series.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Stack the batting (better tail than England)


Top 5 same as SAF tests

6. Neesh
7. BJ
8. Santner
9. Craig
10. Wagner
11. Boult

The other option would be to open with Craig and bat Guptill at 9. They bring similar qualities to the team.

 

[Daemon]

It has recently come to my attention that Rahul Dravid Jr has a man bun.

I'm not saying he should be dropped for it, but Dhawan has been in good form lately.

 

[hendrix]

It has recently come to my attention that Rahul Dravid Jr has a man bun.

I'm allowing it. Looks fine.

 

[BeeGee]

Also, have the selectors learned nothing from NZ's history of injury ridden tours? You don't trim down a squad for a three test series FFS.

This, by far, is weirdest part of the selection.

I can understand dropping Henry. We don't need an extra seamer in India. Bracewell will be replaced in the XI with a spinner and will then be the squad's backup seamer. Replacing Raval (top order batsman) with Neesham (middle order all rounder) makes no sense.

The selection issues would be solved by maintaining the 16 man squad. Raval could stay in the squad and we'd have cover for all positions.

I don't have a problem with Ronchi's selection. As far as I'm concerned he is first and foremost the backup keeper. I do have a problem with him also being used as the first choice specialist bat backup. Again, something that would be solved with a 16 man squad.

 

[Kippax]

I do have a problem with him also being used as the first choice specialist bat backup.

Do you have a problem with it in this instance, Cribbage? I know you were dead against it in the past, but I guess you've seen Ronchi hundreds against McGill and Krejza at the SCG and stuff, and also how little deftness and nous is required to dominate spin on Plunket Shield pitches.

the thing about Ronchi is that he's a terrible starter; he's just never really had a grasp of the idea of building an innings early on by getting his eye in.

Ronchi's more likely to make a batsman's contribution at seven but de Boorder is more likely to perform the #7 role, if that makes sense. Above all though, it's important that he isn't considered as specialist batting backup like he has been in a few other squads recently.

In the spirit of Kruger van Wyk's jaunty 71 on the 2012 tour (after Hesson demanded a more offensive approach from the whole team, which became an attempt to lay 360 in a day on the Indians) I've decided I'm going to accept Ronchi sightings here. He may well be a sickening 20-30 runs better than Will Young in these conditions, with his expert cutting and pulling of big turn that's dropped a fraction short. Certainly better than rainbow unicorn fantasy Jeet Raval would be.

 

[SteveNZ]

I think the difference in class was shown in those two innings during the last test. Wagner bowls okay and takes 5 for whatever, South Africa make 450 plus. Southee turns up in the second innings and South Africa are struggling at 120-7. That's the difference. Southee has the ability to completely kill a team, Boult likewise. Wagner on the other hand is sort of just taking wickets because somebody needs to but the opposing team will still always rack up massive scores. They're cheap wickets really.

Here's the thing though, could Neil Wagner take Southee's new ball job and average 40? Yeah, think he could. Maybe even better. Could Tim Southee take Neil Wagner's third seamer job and average 25? Ha! He averages 40 with a newie. He'd average 100 having to bowl with an old ball. Or he'd pull a pseudo hamstring and go home.

If Tim had been born in Petone, you'd see that his inability to be penetrate with the new ball in the last 24 months means he is eminently droppable on pitches that are likely to offer even less assistance than the ones he's been bowling on in that time.

 

[Moss]

This, by far, is weirdest part of the selection.

I can understand dropping Henry. We don't need an extra seamer in India. Bracewell will be replaced in the XI with a spinner and will then be the squad's backup seamer. Replacing Raval (top order batsman) with Neesham (middle order all rounder) makes no sense.

The selection issues would be solved by maintaining the 16 man squad. Raval could stay in the squad and we'd have cover for all positions.

I don't have a problem with Ronchi's selection. As far as I'm concerned he is first and foremost the backup keeper. I do have a problem with him also being used as the first choice specialist bat backup. Again, something that would be solved with a 16 man squad.

If either Guppy or Latham need to be replaced for reasons of fitness or form, my guess is that Watling moves up to open and Ronchi takes over the gloves. (That way you've saved on the extra plane ticket).

 

[Moss]

Stack the batting (better tail than England)


Top 5 same as SAF tests

6. Neesh
7. BJ
8. Santner
9. Craig
10. Wagner
11. Boult

The other option would be to open with Craig and bat Guptill at 9. They bring similar qualities to the team.

Trouble with stacking the batting is none of Neesh, Santner and Craig offer much in terms of wicket-taking ability (unless conditions really suit, in the case of the two spinners), and they aren't likely to keep the runs down either. If any of them had Vettori's or even (NJ) Astle's capacity for drying the runs up such a combination would be worth looking at. Would much rather play Southee (who is unlikely to be dropped anyway) or Sodhi and put the onus on them to pick up wickets. Or Bracewell, if batting deep is a must.

Strikes me that in recent times Wagner has in fact been playing the Vettori role of strike AND stock bowler. Most economical bowler in South Africa - who would've thought?