*Official* Pakistan in England and Ireland 2016

[Prince EWS]

How the hell is Bairstow man of the match?

Yeah insane; had to be Moeen or Stokes.

 

[Xuhaib]

Pakistan is really off the pace in comparison to modern ODI teams every game they have scored 50 below par score and nothing seems to be done about it massive massive improvement needed.Bangla would have easily scored 300+ atleast twice in this series givin the pitches that have been dished out.

 

[marc71178]

1-14 off four overs at the back end from Jordan. Expect him to be pilloried next time he concedes a few but he can do his job.

Is there a case for only using Willey at the front of the innings and him at the end of an innings when they play together (assuming 6 bowling options?).

Lets face it, neither of them can do the opposite part well.

 

[marc71178]

How the hell is Bairstow man of the match?

Match was at Headingley?

Was being very overrated by Atherton after the game. Apparently he's England's second most valuable player across all formats, even though he's a reserve white ball cricketer.

 

[Howe_zat]

Is there a case for only using Willey at the front of the innings and him at the end of an innings when they play together (assuming 6 bowling options?).

Lets face it, neither of them can do the opposite part well.

Reckon it can be done fairly easily so long as Stokes bowls more.

Also if Jordan doesn't take the new ball there's more room for him to bowl more seam in the 30-45 over period, where the spinners might need to come off if they don't bowl as well as they did yesterday.

 

[marc71178]

Valid point. Personally I wouldn't have Willey in there as a lot of his usefulness is related to his batting which if he isn't opening becomes redundant.

I wouldn't want Jordan unless there were 5 other front line options and they realised to only use him when he's suited to it.

 

[weldone]

Yeah insane; had to be Moeen or Stokes.

personally thought Bairstow's inning was better than Stokes...Stokes offered one or two chances - it is not a rare mature inning from Stokes as people are making it out to be...he played the reckless shots like he does - the only difference is that he had more dot balls in between those reckless shots than usual - didn't rotate the strike

Moeen should have been MoTM

 

[MW1304]

personally thought Bairstow's inning was better than Stokes...Stokes offered one or two chances - it is not a rare mature inning from Stokes as people are making it out to be...he played the reckless shots like he does - the only difference is that he had more dot balls in between those reckless shots than usual - didn't rotate the strike

Moeen should have been MoTM

Most of his boundaries were proper cricket shots to decent or poor balls. It wasn't perfect but it was much better.

 

[Howe_zat]

Most of his boundaries were proper cricket shots to decent or poor balls. It wasn't perfect but it was much better.

I think that's usually true too though. The reason he doesn't have a good batting record in ODIs is that his scoring is boundary reliant - usually based around trying to pierce the infield along the ground, which of course is successful in Tests - and he plays with such hard hands there's no room for error. If anything he doesn't manufacture enough unorthodox stuff. He's really missing the 'shuffle across and nudge' and of course 'the nurdle'.

 

[Howe_zat]

Valid point. Personally I wouldn't have Willey in there as a lot of his usefulness is related to his batting which if he isn't opening becomes redundant.

Agree really, harsh but fair. Think Woakes has more versatility as a bowler and can play an innings from down the order if there's a collapse. Willey is much better than Plunkett or Jordan with the bat but not particularly distinct.

One argument for having him in the attack is he's a left armer.

 

[weldone]

I think that's usually true too though. The reason he doesn't have a good batting record in ODIs is that his scoring is boundary reliant - usually based around trying to pierce the infield along the ground, which of course is successful in Tests - and he plays with such hard hands there's no room for error. If anything he doesn't manufacture enough unorthodox stuff. He's really missing the 'shuffle across and nudge' and of course 'the nurdle'.

Yea this.

That's why I think he should bat at 7; no. 5 in ODIs really doesn't suit him. The problem is that Moeen is heavily boundary-reliant too. At the moment Bairstow is the best no. 5 England has. Root maybe ok as a 6th bowler in the subcontinent - so there's no real need for Stokes in such conditions.

 

[91Jmay]

It was more the fact he stood up and won us a game in a dicky match situation. He has been given far more chances than he deserves in this format and owes the team more of these performances.

 

[MW1304]

I think that's usually true too though. The reason he doesn't have a good batting record in ODIs is that his scoring is boundary reliant - usually based around trying to pierce the infield along the ground, which of course is successful in Tests - and he plays with such hard hands there's no room for error. If anything he doesn't manufacture enough unorthodox stuff. He's really missing the 'shuffle across and nudge' and of course 'the nurdle'.

My point there was that he really didn't play 'reckless shots' as was being suggested. Quite often he will lose his shape a bit going aerial, or struggle to get a spinner away, but this was a proper innings. He didn't panic when he didn't get boundaries away for a short while, he just kept playing, which is key for boundary-reliant players. Don't disagree with anything you say here.

 

[theegyptian]

Moeen, Bairstow and Stokes are all the same. Conventional types who hit in predictable/conventional areas, are mainly boundary hitters, and none of them rotate the strike well.

It'll be a poor use of resources if they end up in the same team together especially batting at 5,6,7. Moeen and Stokes play as allrounders - and that gives the team great ballance so I can't see Bairstow playing much.

Billings would be a better reserve bat than Bairstow. Rotates better and hits 360. Should be getting experience now.

Stokes should bat 4 (or 3 if Root opens) or 7 imo. Want him early so he doesn't have to think about the match situation. Morgan more adaptable and more vulnerable against new ball should bat lower.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I think they're batting Stokes at 5 to manage his workload. He seems to be improving his batting approach and realising he doesn't need to manufacture shots most of the time because he's so powerful, picks length well and has a full range of orthodox cricket shots. Batting normally he scores at a run a ball or more effortlessly. Hopefully we'll see less muddled thinking dismissals where he's hitting balls flat to a boundary rider early on. Hitting it down and when looking to go big later on committing to it properly.

 

[marc71178]

Personally I like the idea of Stokes at 5. Very reminiscent of when Flintoff was given more responsibility with the bat in ODIs and hopefully will turn out as well if not better.

 

[91Jmay]

I am sort of hoping Morgan doesn't go to Bangladesh. Root to captain, get Duckett in the side to have a look.

 

[grecian]

Personally I like the idea of Stokes at 5. Very reminiscent of when Flintoff was given more responsibility with the bat in ODIs and hopefully will turn out as well if not better.

Good point turned his ODI batting career around didn't it? Think hw had bowling issues too and scored proper big innings.

 

[ImpatientLime]

I think that's usually true too though. The reason he doesn't have a good batting record in ODIs is that his scoring is boundary reliant - usually based around trying to pierce the infield along the ground, which of course is successful in Tests - and he plays with such hard hands there's no room for error. If anything he doesn't manufacture enough unorthodox stuff. He's really missing the 'shuffle across and nudge' and of course 'the nurdle'.

this. his odi batting reminds me so much of matt priors.

 

[Howe_zat]

The last time England went 4-0 up against Pakistan (in 2012), their scores were 260, 250, 226 and 241.