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***Official*** New Zealand tour of Zimbabwe and South Africa 2016
- Thread starter Kippax
- Start date
Shady Slim
International Coach
-de kock has risen immensely in value after that imo, shows he is able to slot in to the opening position in a pinch which only adds to his already impressive resume
-paul reiffel is nourished by the tears of new zealand
-after they got lil quint - and for a lot of the time before wagner set him up - i think the kiwu were relying too much on the individual ball to be brilliant rather than setting up a plan
-the comment by flem about santner i find interesting because he was awesome in oz but perhaps the sheen is gone, also loved the comment about dean elgar 5fer cricket
-paul reiffel is nourished by the tears of new zealand
-after they got lil quint - and for a lot of the time before wagner set him up - i think the kiwu were relying too much on the individual ball to be brilliant rather than setting up a plan
-the comment by flem about santner i find interesting because he was awesome in oz but perhaps the sheen is gone, also loved the comment about dean elgar 5fer cricket
Shady Slim
International Coach
mitch starc is playing tonight, wrong thread
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
I Agree with all of this.
For me the team is perfect except I want to use my influence as a renowned poster on CW to influence Mike Hesson, who reads this forum daily, to push relentlessly for Popli to be rushed into the team and for our number 5 who's name I haven't bothered to learn to be banished back to plunket for a few years. I do think our present number 5 could be a test match player but not in the next 5 years, he needs a lot more cricket under his belt and preferrably a gig or several gigs in England.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
So how much longer before we reconcile ourselves to the unfortunate fact that Wagner is just flat-out the best bowler in the team?
From what I saw, I agree with hendo, don't think we bowled particularly badly, i went to bed with the score at about 130/0 and was still fairly optimistic that we could finish with 5 or 6 wickets. But obviously SA played well and things just did 't go our way.
From what I saw, I agree with hendo, don't think we bowled particularly badly, i went to bed with the score at about 130/0 and was still fairly optimistic that we could finish with 5 or 6 wickets. But obviously SA played well and things just did 't go our way.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
Kind of agree, kind of disagree. Yes we were trying to bowl wicket taking deliveries each ball, but I think that was the right tactic since there was something in it for the bowlers. Drying up the runs would have entailed bowling a shorter length and usually that means less wickets.
Flem274*
123/5
Now that Boult is bowling well again Wagner is #2 imo. Still, it's not unfortunate. I'm happy a guy most of the forum doubted is bowling well.
Boult was ok in the final session through my drunken lenses Burge, probably the only one who can moan about his luck. Some very close lbw calls etc but not as good as last test.
Boult was ok in the final session through my drunken lenses Burge, probably the only one who can moan about his luck. Some very close lbw calls etc but not as good as last test.
Shady Slim
International Coach
it's only the wrong plan in hindsight imo, like if it came off nobody would have said anything - since cook and de kock were immovable though i think drying up could have worked, especially since in a post game quint said how surprised he was he could leave so many balls
either way it was great batsmanship so i don't want to take anything away there
Flem274*
123/5
I really don't think NZs #5 is their biggest issue atm and switching out one young batsman for another won't change much.
Nicholls has gotten Australia, Zimbabwe, South Africa as his introduction to this level. Two early outs in Zimbabwe and all of a sudden it's hard for him to nail his spot, even with his 50 against the West Island scum. India in India next. He picked a poor time to dayboo. A nice long home summer against popgun international bowling isn't on the cards for him.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
This is a throwaway comment just designed to give you jokers something to read so take it or leave it.
Had we have batted first - I think anything could have happened. There was a bit in this pitch. In one scenario maybe we get rolled for 150. So yeah I think the best decision all round was to bowl.
That 45 all out was a major blow to the stomach of NZ cricket. We couldn't afford to go there again.
Had we have batted first - I think anything could have happened. There was a bit in this pitch. In one scenario maybe we get rolled for 150. So yeah I think the best decision all round was to bowl.
That 45 all out was a major blow to the stomach of NZ cricket. We couldn't afford to go there again.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
I dunno, at this point I sorta think that Wagner's stamina and agression makes him a more useful bowler than Boult in a wider variety of conditions. Boult obviously the one you'd rather have taking the new rock, but as we saw yesterday evening Wagner is handy in that scenario as well, and he's definitely the man you'd turn to on a dead track with a scuffed up ball of rags.
Zinzan
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Does a NZ Test bowling day go by these days without Southee getting some special mention for either 'actually bowling quite well in part of some spells' or 'improving' after an overall disappointing day? Any half-decent seamer in the world would have beaten the bat a few times on that deck yesterday with that little bit of seam movement.
No Southee didn't bowl well and hasn't for a long time now. We shouldn't keep narrowing it down to citing 2-3 over here and there where he doesn't spray in all over the place and then claim it's somehow a promising sign.
I can't work out whether he's simply too erratic to consistently land the ball in good areas, too impatient to do so, or just a combination of the two.
And what's with him using the crease that much in the first 4-5 overs when surely the plan is just to hit the right areas and worry about changing the angles of the crease a bit later on, he seems to be varying it every 2nd-3rd delivery.
I could be reading too much into it, but it seems some are constantly trying to find these tiny positives about an aspect of Southee's bowling after an overall disappointing return. He's still a long way off the mark as a threatening Test bowler against quality opposition and has bee for a long time now.
No Southee didn't bowl well and hasn't for a long time now. We shouldn't keep narrowing it down to citing 2-3 over here and there where he doesn't spray in all over the place and then claim it's somehow a promising sign.
I can't work out whether he's simply too erratic to consistently land the ball in good areas, too impatient to do so, or just a combination of the two.
And what's with him using the crease that much in the first 4-5 overs when surely the plan is just to hit the right areas and worry about changing the angles of the crease a bit later on, he seems to be varying it every 2nd-3rd delivery.
I could be reading too much into it, but it seems some are constantly trying to find these tiny positives about an aspect of Southee's bowling after an overall disappointing return. He's still a long way off the mark as a threatening Test bowler against quality opposition and has bee for a long time now.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
Drying up would have involved him leaving even more deliveries. If we had made him play we would have slipped on to his middle stump and he would have punished us. He batted like a collasus spelling? We heard so much about him when he was young and last night he looked like the hype was worth it. The other opener looked ordinary and won't have a long career would be my initial suspicion.
Noted. I have no response to this, other than to say I made my mind up about him while watching him in ODIs. I think he is a real prospect in 50 over cricket. But again KaneHesson (we need a word like McHesson) feel a compulsion to play all players in all 3 forms of the game. Popli is suited to the long form and a quick check of cricinfo shows he hasn't even appeared in a List A match. He is our guy for tests. 1000 runs in a season should be enough to book you a ticket.
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hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
re: Southee
- His pace was up
- his seam presentation was good
- he was much better against the LH batsmen than the previous test.
I think he was ok.
Not making excuses for him, but until Henry comes good there's no competition. Well, Bracewell bowled about equally to him last night.
- His pace was up
- his seam presentation was good
- he was much better against the LH batsmen than the previous test.
I think he was ok.
Not making excuses for him, but until Henry comes good there's no competition. Well, Bracewell bowled about equally to him last night.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
I hear you.
At the same time form is temporary class is permanent will be the words ringing the minds of the selectors.
We have a small player base so we can afford to be patient with former star players who have gone off the boil (hopefully) temporarily. Certainly this new bowling coach Jurgenson is improving him. I called for him to average about 30 in this series. He will travel ok without getting any 5fers.
He has bowled a lot worse in the past, so I treat this tour as a turning point hopefully.
Zinzan
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Not suggesting we necessarily drop him or that we have better options at this point and your observation about his pace being up is valid enough. What hasn't improved is his consistency and ability to land at least 5 out of 6 (ideally 6) in the right areas, and that doesn't seem to have improved since his dip in form some 18 months ago (or whenever it was).
I just happen to think he needs a good Test or at least a good 'day' as opposed to just one good half-spell here and there to warrant comments that he's improving or that things are looking good.
BTW I'm not picking on you Hendrix, just seems there's always some positive mention of Southee somewhere and from someone when to me nothing much has changed. He seems to be just a bit 'unlucky' an awful lot according to some.
Zinzan
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@ Cane & the Jurgenson comment. Progress will only be made if it starts translating into actual results. Let's hope you're right about it being some turning point, but forgive me for not getting overly excited at this point.
And that's my Southee rant over for the day (or possibly the hour).
And that's my Southee rant over for the day (or possibly the hour).
Flem274*
123/5
Throwaway comment - it's kinda like Southee has been trying to reproduce the unfair swing day from the World Cup 7fer ever since that day
You don't recreate that intentionally. Southee just turned up and was unplayable. You only recreate that by bowling good and sometimes good bowling will come out as unfair bowling.
Also Tim Southee right now isn't bowling anything right now that Matt Henry doesn't, and I like watching Henry's action more so...
You don't recreate that intentionally. Southee just turned up and was unplayable. You only recreate that by bowling good and sometimes good bowling will come out as unfair bowling.
Also Tim Southee right now isn't bowling anything right now that Matt Henry doesn't, and I like watching Henry's action more so...