The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Zinzan]

My AT XI for tests from the players I have watched - Mostly based on how I am feeling at the moment.. This will probably change tomorrow


Michael Slater
Alastair Cook
Brian Lara
Sachin Tendulkar
Kumar Sangakkara
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Shaun Pollock
Wasim Akram
Dale Steyn
Shane Warne
Muttiah Muralitharan

Great side, apart from the openers

 

[harsh.ag]

For a Pakistan all time side, balance in the lower middle order is the main issue:

Hanif
Anwar
Inzi
Javed
Younis
-
Sarfraz + (Yeah it's time)
Imran
Wasim
Qadir/Saqlain (Yasir to compete here in two years maybe)
Waqar

One either picks Mushtaq Mohammad at 6 or a full time batsman in Yousuf, Abbas, Misbah. Or there is a third possibility, what Cricinfo did, pick Imran at 6 and another full time bowler.

 

[Gob]

For a Pakistan all time side, balance in the lower middle order is the main issue:

Hanif
Anwar
Inzi
Javed
Younis
-
Sarfraz + (Yeah it's time)
Imran
Wasim
Qadir/Saqlain (Yasir to compete here in two years maybe)
Waqar

One either picks Mushtaq Mohammad at 6 or a full time batsman in Yousuf, Abbas, Misbah. Or there is a third possibility, what Cricinfo did, pick Imran at 6 and another full time bowler.

Shoaib tbh

 

[mr_mister]

how about this for India


Vijay Merchant
Sunil Gavaskar
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Vijay Hazare
Vinoo Mankad
Farokh Engineer
Kapil Dev
Javagal Srinath
Subhash Gupte
Mohammad Nissar

Gupte can be replaced by Kumble/any of the spin quartet, I dunno who is considered head and shoulders India's best spinner. I'm also not sure who their best pacemen are after Kapil, maybe Zaheer can slot in. I think Mankad/Engineer/Dev are not as strong as batsmen as many other who make other ATG teams, but because they are at 6-7-8 and not 5-6-7 it makes it more acceptable IMO. Vinoo seems like more than a handy 5th bowling option and a really valuable utility player

 

[Burgey]

In addition, Waqar and Donald are both more deserving of a start in a 90s XI over McGrath.

Noooooo.

Never mind SWaugh, McGrath basically unpicked the windies in 95 even as a pup. By 97 he was crazy good. Donald was brilliant but a bit soft on the left side of his chest cavity and Waqar, albeit only aged 5 by the mid-90s was having lots of injury worries.

 

[OverratedSanity]

how about this for India


Vijay Merchant
Sunil Gavaskar
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Vijay Hazare
Vinoo Mankad
Farokh Engineer
Kapil Dev
Javagal Srinath
Subhash Gupte
Mohammad Nissar

Gupte can be replaced by Kumble/any of the spin quartet, I dunno who is considered head and shoulders India's best spinner. I'm also not sure who their best pacemen are after Kapil, maybe Zaheer can slot in. I think Mankad/Engineer/Dev are not as strong as batsmen as many other who make other ATG teams, but because they are at 6-7-8 and not 5-6-7 it makes it more acceptable IMO. Vinoo seems like more than a handy 5th bowling option and a really valuable utility player

VVS over Hazare

 

[Howe_zat]

how about this for India


Vijay Merchant
Sunil Gavaskar
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Vijay Hazare
Vinoo Mankad
Farokh Engineer
Kapil Dev
Javagal Srinath
Subhash Gupte
Mohammad Nissar

Gupte can be replaced by Kumble/any of the spin quartet, I dunno who is considered head and shoulders India's best spinner. I'm also not sure who their best pacemen are after Kapil, maybe Zaheer can slot in. I think Mankad/Engineer/Dev are not as strong as batsmen as many other who make other ATG teams, but because they are at 6-7-8 and not 5-6-7 it makes it more acceptable IMO. Vinoo seems like more than a handy 5th bowling option and a really valuable utility player

You're forgetting Stuart Broad

 

[watson]

how about this for India


Vijay Merchant
Sunil Gavaskar
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Vijay Hazare
Vinoo Mankad
Farokh Engineer
Kapil Dev
Javagal Srinath
Subhash Gupte
Mohammad Nissar

Gupte can be replaced by Kumble/any of the spin quartet, I dunno who is considered head and shoulders India's best spinner. I'm also not sure who their best pacemen are after Kapil, maybe Zaheer can slot in. I think Mankad/Engineer/Dev are not as strong as batsmen as many other who make other ATG teams, but because they are at 6-7-8 and not 5-6-7 it makes it more acceptable IMO. Vinoo seems like more than a handy 5th bowling option and a really valuable utility player

Mankad averaged 31 overall, but 41 as opener which is pretty good in the era of Lindwall, Trueman, Fazal and Gilchrist.

Trouble is Mankad seems to be one of the most inconsistent batsman in the history of cricket. If he wasn't cracking a ton then he was getting out for a single digit score.

Blogs: A consistency index for batsmen | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo

I wonder whether India would have got more value from Vinoo if they allowed him to settle at No.4 or 5 when the shine was off the ball and he was more recovered from his usual long bowling spells.

 

[watson]

VVS over Hazare

VVS over Dravid?

 

[OverratedSanity]

No

 

[harsh.ag]

VVS over Dravid?

VVS and Dravid together. Always. Al-****ing-ways.

 

[watson]

In addition, Waqar and Donald are both more deserving of a start in a 90s XI over McGrath.

Not much between the 90s McGrath and the 00s McGrath. Almost a mirror image in every stat - which just goes to show how consistent he was throughout his career.

The ICC has his rating peaking (914 points) on 27/8/2001. But I reckon that his best years were 1997 to 1999 with great series against the Windies, England, and RSA.


McGrath 1993 to 1999
Tests = 58
Wickets = 266
Average = 22.87
ER = 2.61
SR = 52.40
5fer = 15
10fer = 1


McGrath 2000 to 2007
Tests = 66
Wickets = 297
Average = 20.53
ER = 2.39
SR = 51.40
5fer = 14
10fer = 2

 

[AldoRaine18]

VVS over Dravid?

Dravid, Gavaskar and Tendulkar are all equally undroppable. VVS will be in Mankad's place.

 

[mr_mister]

Which would make Sachin the 5th bowling option?

 

[watson]

Dravid, Gavaskar and Tendulkar are all equally undroppable. VVS will be in Mankad's place.

The Indian attack needs 5 bowlers, especially Mankad's left-arm variety if Bedi isn't chosen.

 

[AldoRaine18]

The Indian attack needs 5 bowlers, especially Mankad's left-arm variety if Bedi isn't chosen.

For home games on the subcontinent, an attack of Dev, Zaheer, Gupte and Kumble would be more than enough. Most of the overs will be bowled by spinners.

A traditional Indian side would be heavy on batting and light on bowling. India has rarely produced any ATG bowlers, specially when it comes to pace and rely on their batsmen to do the job. 6 specialists batsmen sound precisely what I would expect from a great Indian team. At their pomp they had the batting order of Gambhir, Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Ganguly and Laxman.

 

[mr_mister]

yeah but i feel we're chosing an XI for all occasions


no subbing out for various conditions

 

[AldoRaine18]

yeah but i feel we're chosing an XI for all occasions


no subbing out for various conditions

Sure but India played 6 bats in all conditions too. I mean if we are making a WI XI the first thing I'll do is put in 4 fast bowlers, that's what they were best at. Indians are good at batting. Just a personal thing I guess but I like to account for the history of great teams the country has produced while making an XI. Batting and spin is where it's at in India.

 

[mr_mister]

If Lance Gibbs was around in the '80s, I'm sure he'd replace Colin Croft or whoever the 4th member was at the time, if nothing else just for variety.

Just coz the windies at their peak had a 4 pronged pace attack doesn't mean it's ideal for this scenario

 

[AldoRaine18]

If Lance Gibbs was around in the '80s, I'm sure he'd replace Colin Croft or whoever the 4th member was at the time, if nothing else just for variety.

Just coz the windies at their peak had a 4 pronged pace attack doesn't mean it's ideal for this scenario

Not just any 4 pacers though. They did keep winning for a few years in all conditions so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I believe in playing to your strengths.