The Stokes and Woakes Thread

[harsh.ag]

Woakes has had a stellar run in tests recently against Sri Lanka and Pakistan, the 5 tests so far bringing him 31 wickets at an average of 15.87 and strike rate of 32.5 with a couple of five-fers. At the same time, he has scored 233 runs at an average of 46.60 with a couple of fifties.

Stokes is more of a batting all-rounder when compared to Woakes. We have seen the havoc he can wreak with the bat, and certainly will make bigger scores than Woakes seems capable of at the moment. He has a bowling average of 37.58 and a strike rate of 64.4 though, and it hasn't been improving as such, holding steady through the years, actually going through a downturn in the 2015 season.

Both of them have lots of talent and age on their side. There are a few things we can talk about. Who is the better test all-rounder overall? Who is a better fit for the England line-up at present given Moeen Ali's presence in the tail? Should England accommodate both of them in their side at the expense of Wood/Finn?

 

[Howe_zat]

And what about Ben Foakes?

 

[Pothas]

They both play. That is about it really.

 

[Howe_zat]

They both play. That is about it really.

Woakes making the side as a bowler neatly simplifies things.

Having decent batsmen at 8/9 isn't a problem. We'd have to make a call if a spinner who is clearly better than Ali but can't bat comes through, but we are a long way off that right now and the safety in numbers batting is working ok.

 

[Adders]

They both play. That is about it really.

You'd think one of them will have to sit out in India (and Bangladesh if we go) so we can fit the second spinner in??

If that's the case it would have to be Woakes.

 

[Pothas]

Maybe, although I think they may well do the 6 bowler thing.

Elsewhere they both play all the time though, they are not competing for the same spot.

 

[91Jmay]

I don't really see why it would have to be Woakes who comes out in India (but then, I wouldn't would I?).

Woakes is a pretty good player of spin and Stokes not suited to their pitches at all with bat. Could argue his extra pace will be useful though.

 

[Adders]

Maybe, although I think they may well do the 6 bowler thing.

Elsewhere they both play all the time though, they are not competing for the same spot.

Moeen bat in the top 6 and drop Vince? That could work.

Totally agree with the second part

 

[harsh.ag]

England might also be wanting to look at developing another pace spearhead in Wood. When Jimmy goes, Woakes is probably not the guy you would want to promote to that role.

 

[Adders]

I don't really see why it would have to be Woakes who comes out in India (but then, I wouldn't would I?).

Woakes is a pretty good player of spin and Stokes not suited to their pitches at all with bat. Could argue his extra pace will be useful though.

Yeah fair enough, I wasn't really thinking of the option of Moeen batting in the top 6 (or the second spinner for that matter depending on who it is) if that happened I can see it's not so clear cut.

 

[Pothas]

England might also be wanting to look at developing another pace spearhead in Wood. When Jimmy goes, Woakes is probably not the guy you would want to promote to that role.

Woakes is way more like Anderson than Wood anyway. Wood will get opportunites if he stays fit anyway though, injuries always come along.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I don't really see why it would have to be Woakes who comes out in India (but then, I wouldn't would I?).

Woakes is a pretty good player of spin and Stokes not suited to their pitches at all with bat. Could argue his extra pace will be useful though.

Given how Vince has played I wouldn't have a problem with Woakes staying in the side as a batsman and a lesser bowling option anyway if we decided to go down that route, Rashid could probably replace the amount of runs Vince has scored anyway so the batting would be the same and it would give us plenty of options bowling wise and spread the workload for the pacemen so they can go full blast in every spell.

 

[Howe_zat]

I think if they promoted anyone up the order it should be Bairstow.

5 Bairstow
6 Stokes
7 Moeen
8 Woakes
9 Rashid

Still looks like a bit of a mess to me. Would rather a proper batsman puts their hand up to replace Vince. Even if it's a new version of Vince.

Replacing a guy who is scoring 30s and 40s in the top order with a guy who can score 20s and 30s in the lower order doesn't actually fix a problem

 

[harsh.ag]

Given how Vince has played I wouldn't have a problem with Woakes staying in the side as a batsman and a lesser bowling option anyway if we decided to go down that route, Rashid could probably replace the amount of runs Vince has scored anyway so the batting would be the same and it would give us plenty of options bowling wise and spread the workload for the pacemen so they can go full blast in every spell.

So

Moeen (5)
Woakes (3)
Rashid (4)
Broad (2)
Anderson (1)

?

 

[Adders]

I think if they promoted anyone up the order it should be Bairstow.

5 Bairstow
6 Stokes
7 Moeen
8 Woakes
9 Rashid

Still looks like a bit of a mess to me. Would rather a proper batsman puts their hand up to replace Vince. Even if it's a new version of Vince.

So would I in principle. But assuming we will play 2 spinners in India if they do go for a genuine batsmen to replace Vince, then one of; Woakes, Stokes or dare I even say it........Broad, would have to miss out.

This allrounder business is just some crazy **** at the moment.

 

[Howe_zat]

With 6 bowlers in the side there is all the more pressure on Stokes to play within himself as a top-order player. I don't think that's how you get the best out of him. Same with Moeen.

It didn't work in the UAE and you know what the definition of madness is.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

So

Moeen (5)
Woakes (3)
Rashid (4)
Broad (2)
Anderson (1)

?

Stokes in for Finn making 6

 

[harsh.ag]

Yeah, don't see that working against Ashwin. Need another batsman and drop either Stokes or Woakes.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

So would I in principle. But assuming we will play 2 spinners in India if they do go for a genuine batsmen to replace Vince, then one of; Woakes, Stokes or dare I even say it........Broad, would have to miss out.

This allrounder business is just some crazy **** at the moment.

I just think the bats we are picking aren't scoring enough runs to warrant dropping one of the all rounders at present. Daft as it is but it is a fact. Bairstow to 5 is something they should consider but if he has kept a long time and they need to rest him a bit we can always shuffle him down the order a bit.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Yeah, don't see that working against Ashwin. Need another batsman and drop either Stokes or Woakes.

The Ashwin who averages nearly 50 against us?

We play him well, be fascinating to see if he has a new plan against us.