Overrated/Underrated

[Zinzan]

You'd be surprised. Because Logie burned Australia a couple of times after we'd run through the top order, people talk about those sides as if they had amazing 1-11 line ups. They were great sides but their middle order pretty much post-Richardson's debut and the departure of the likes of Rowe and Kallicharan was pretty meh. Mind you, it rarely made a difference.

Don't recall people claiming Logie was anything more than a fine fieldsmen tbh.

 

[Burgey]

Don't recall people claiming Logie was anything more than a fine fieldsmen tbh.

Well you weren't here in the 80s then.

 

[mr_mister]

I'm interested in the reasons for Waqar being considering overrated Burgey. Care to elab?

Genuinely curious btw not necessarily disagreeing

 

[Burgey]

Some good ones there like Alan Davidson, Chris Cairns & Heath Streak being underrated and Tendulkar being overrated. But do many really underrate Sobers on here? News to me, guy seems rightly to be held in god-like status from what I've seen. And Ian Botham, how's he overrated? The fact he declined from the late 80s onwards? Same with Gavaskar's batting, can't see how that's overrated assuming we're talking Test cricket.

Botham had a golden run early doors but was pretty average thereafter. He also didn't do well vs the Windies who were the bench mark of the era (not that that's a massive negative given the opposition).

Gavaskar's record, especially vs West Indies is worth looking behind to see how it stands up. His record here was also cod ordinary when he played decent Australian sides. Lillee could get him out with a tomato.

 

[Burgey]

I'm interested in the reasons for Waqar being considering overrated Burgey. Care to elab?

Genuinely curious btw not necessarily disagreeing

He had an amazing start to his career but declined pretty rapidly, mostly due to injury, maybe due to not getting on with Wasim. He's talked about like a god based on those early performances, whereas you see players who have similar shooting star-like starts then come back to the field not being rated as highly as he is. Plus, never really did it out here either, despite first touring as a foetus (as claimed by tour management at the time) in the late 80s/ early 90s and coming back time and again.

 

[jimmy101]

I find the Andy Flower one a bit curious. Is it because Dave Houghton is underrated?

 

[fredfertang]

Don't recall people claiming Logie was anything more than a fine fieldsmen tbh.

Burgey's right - on those few occasions in that era when England got through their top order quickly there was always him, Jeff Dujon and one of the bowlers to take the initiative back

 

[Zinzan]

Wait, I'm confused, are you agreeing with Burgey's assessment the likes of Logie were overrated?

 

[Flem274*]

overrated

-the follow on. bowlers aren't robots.
-openers with "proper" technique and scoring pace. you can have the prettiest, most dour way of batting in the world and still be at sea on a green one. aggression knocks weaklings off their length.
-aggressive batting in test matches. sure some batsmen feel pressured if they're not scoring, but chris rogers, misbah ul haq or bj watling will happily plod away all day without a care in the world.
-hitters in ODIs. they'll win you the JAMODI series, but in a world cup final it's the top four or five who score the big runs, and if you need your #6 in a world cup final you often need them to be good at something other than hitting sixes.

underrated

-glenn mcgrath and dale steyn. in the most successful era for batting ever on unhospitable pitches, they're ATGs.

 

[Gnske]

Underrated

Kiwis talking about World Cup Finals.

 

[Zinzan]

underrated

-glenn mcgrath and dale steyn. in the most successful era for batting ever on unhospitable pitches, they're ATGs.

Huh? People underrate Steyn and McGrath and/or claim they're not ATGs? Where, who? Can't recall ever seeing it.

 

[Burgey]

I think the point is that these guys are rated very highly but when it comes to saying who's the best of all time (often a McGrath vs. Marshall debate in particular) they don't knock x% off his average to compensate for a batsman dominated era in the 2000s whereas when a batsman from that era is compared with one beforehand, it's often said his average is inflated because it was a flat track era.

Or something.

 

[Zinzan]

Could be some truth there, but I think you'll find most rate Marshall > McGrath for reasons other than merely their average.

And if we're talking averages, it could be said that neither McGrath or MM had to bowl against the best batting teams in their respective eras, not that it was their fault they played in them....

 

[Howe_zat]

Don't recall people claiming Logie was anything more than a fine fieldsmen tbh.

Well you weren't here in the 80s then.

Good illustration of why whether somebody is overrated or underrated is a pretty worthless discussion.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Overrated: Howe Zat's podcasts because he barely does them.

 

[Howe_zat]

Overrated: Howe Zat's podcasts because he barely does them.

I've copped a few of these where it's relevant but you can ease off having a go when it isn't, thanks. Things happen.

 

[wpdavid]

I think the point is that these guys are rated very highly but when it comes to saying who's the best of all time (often a McGrath vs. Marshall debate in particular) they don't knock x% off his average to compensate for a batsman dominated era in the 2000s whereas when a batsman from that era is compared with one beforehand, it's often said his average is inflated because it was a flat track era.

Or something.

I think it's also because it's natural automatically assume that great players who we watched in our formative years have the edge over more recent performers.
Hence Lillee and Marshall will get the vote ahead of Ambrose, Wasim, McGrath and Steyn just because we have more of an emotional attachment to the earlier players.
Maybe.

 

[Zinzan]

Possibly something to that, although I still think Marshall's generally regarded as the best of other reasons to merely that & his average.


Out of interest, has there ever been a poll solely for Aussies on the forum as to who they rate out of McGrath & Lillee? Would like to see the result of that. Hard to pick given we have a good cross section of young and old on this forum.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Huh? People underrate Steyn and McGrath and/or claim they're not ATGs? Where, who? Can't recall ever seeing it.

As long as we're speaking of CW, McGrath, not really. But Steyn is still underrated imo. ****, just a few weeks ago I was scoffed at for saying he was better than Curtly ambrose. It was in jest, sure, but he's still not put at that level by a fair few.

 

[Shady Slim]

here come some more

overrated:
-fourth stump

underrated:
-wristy batsmanship