The Battlers Prince
International Vice-Captain
A present for you, you seam to like numbers
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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
watson
Banned
I've watched Lillee in action while sitting on The Hill at the SCG, and I've watched McGrath up close at a packed North Sydney Oval.
If entertainment is a criteria for choosing one bowler over another bowler when everything else is about equal, then it's Lillee by a country mile.
If entertainment is a criteria for choosing one bowler over another bowler when everything else is about equal, then it's Lillee by a country mile.
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Shady Slim
International Coach
the thing with players like grace is the panache and x factor they bring to the crease
kohli kind of has it, chris gayle has it, steve smith for example does not have it - jacques kallis didn't have it but he had it so little that became an art in and of itself
and it's that mystery that can be a big draw
i think it's the personalities of cricket that have lacked a bit in test cricket lately that have contributed heavily to the prevalence of t20 - it's difficult for me to imagine many being super eager to see a steve smith over a mccullum or gayle, especially when they're new to cricket - compared to how in the so called "glory days" there were the big personalities like viv and lillee
kohli kind of has it, chris gayle has it, steve smith for example does not have it - jacques kallis didn't have it but he had it so little that became an art in and of itself
and it's that mystery that can be a big draw
i think it's the personalities of cricket that have lacked a bit in test cricket lately that have contributed heavily to the prevalence of t20 - it's difficult for me to imagine many being super eager to see a steve smith over a mccullum or gayle, especially when they're new to cricket - compared to how in the so called "glory days" there were the big personalities like viv and lillee
ankitj
Hall of Fame Member
AldoRaine18
State Vice-Captain
It's really not. One has 200+ more wickets, at a better average, a better strike rate, with a better economy and in an era where rules didn't favour bowlers, restricted number of bouncers, flatter wickets and a better array of opposition batsmen. One didn't need to use intimidation tactics to get the job done. McGrath averages 23 in Asia, Lillee averages ****ing 68! I appreciate your personal accounts and as much as enjoy watching Lillee bowl, he's not in Pidge's tier.
smash84
The Tiger King
Lillee's average in Asia is primarily because of a disastrous tour of Pakistan where he averaged 101. It is ridiculous to suggest that they are not in the same tier. 200+ wickets playing 50+ more matches is something you should add. And its a myth that flat wickets didn't exist in the era that Lillee played in.
AldoRaine18
State Vice-Captain
And it's not fair to McGrath to assume had Lillee played those many more games, he would have automatically amassed those many wickets. That's actually a highly flawed logic. I was only partially serious with the average in Asia but it's one thing guessing one would take 550+ test wickets as a fast bowler and another thing actually DOING it. Read the 'will ashwin take 800 wickets' thread. Obviously that's way too exaggerated and the difference between Pidge and Lillee is less than those two but you can't just use math and extend a career. McGrath is the highest wicket taker in test history among fast bowlers, the fact that he maintained his standard over a longer career makes it 'not equal', contrary to what watson claimed. I get the romanticism around Lillee but their careers are simply not 'equal', in any way. McGrath achieved a lot more than Lillee did and it is unfair to him to discredit of his achievements. Otherwise you may as well argue that Cook as greater than Tendulkar by multiplying his current runs/match and extending it to 200 tests. It doesn't work like that. McGrath is simply the better bowler of the two, based on their careers, period.
smash84
The Tiger King
Did you actually watch Lillee bowl? And did you see him play?
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AldoRaine18
State Vice-Captain
Yes, obviously.
Gob
International Coach
I think they are the same thing
Gob
International Coach
Thats one weird way of asking it
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
Yeh, surprising that there could be people aged over 30 in the world, innit?
Zinzan
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Yeah, everyone's 12 here.
Zinzan
Request Your Custom Title Now!
No doubt they're both ATGs, both undisputed top 10 pace bowlers of all times & reasonable argument for both to make the top 5 of all time - although I'd have to really think about that one since I rate Marshall, Hadlee, Ambrose & Akram marginally higher than the two of them.
All that said, naturally people are always going to debate & compare them.
Gob
International Coach
Thats what she said