***Official*** New Zealand tour of Zimbabwe and South Africa 2016

[Athlai]

The accuracy is bigger concern for me as it's also dipped. At times it's been just good club standard.

Meanwhile Henry isn't bashing the door down as he should be, Duffy still way too raw, and Milne predictable injured. Bracewell is a known quantity.

All hopes on Nuttall?

This feels like a massive overreaction. Southee and Boult have been poor compared to what they're capable of but they're still consistently potent with the new ball. Wagner has been showing how useful he is with the older ball. Henry is there to cover injury or any serious loss of form. We have a very solid Test attack. Just because we don't arguably have one of the best in the world at the moment doesn't mean we're in any sort of trouble.

I'd definitely wait to see what Boult and Southee have to offer in South Africa before ringing the alarm bells. This was a road, almost no swing, and it had been a long time since they'd bowled in Test match conditions. And we still very comfortably pulled Zimbabwe to pieces.

 

[hendrix]

This feels like a massive overreaction. Southee and Boult have been poor compared to what they're capable of but they're still consistently potent with the new ball. Wagner has been showing how useful he is with the older ball. Henry is there to cover injury or any serious loss of form. We have a very solid Test attack. Just because we don't arguably have one of the best in the world at the moment doesn't mean we're in any sort of trouble.

I'd definitely wait to see what Boult and Southee have to offer in South Africa before ringing the alarm bells. This was a road, almost no swing, and it had been a long time since they'd bowled in Test match conditions. And we still very comfortably pulled Zimbabwe to pieces.

It's not that I think they should be dropped, I'm just concerned at how everyone seems to be going backwards. It's fine for bowlers to have a few bad matches, but it seems like there's not a single bowler over the last 2 years who's actually improved. Apart from maybe Wagner.

That's a big concern.

 

[Athlai]

It's not that I think they should be dropped, I'm just concerned at how everyone seems to be going backwards. It's fine for bowlers to have a few bad matches, but it seems like there's not a single bowler over the last 2 years who's actually improved. Apart from maybe Wagner.

That's a big concern.

I think Henry Wagner Sodhi and Santner have all improved in the bowling stocks. Duffy two years ago wasn't even in the conversation.

 

[Zinzan]

I think Henry Wagner Sodhi and Santner have all improved in the bowling stocks. Duffy two years ago wasn't even in the conversation.

Henry's improved in the last 2 years? Really?

 

[Zinzan]

This was a road, almost no swing, and it had been a long time since they'd bowled in Test match conditions. And we still very comfortably pulled Zimbabwe to pieces.

I really don't think this is saying much tbh... but yeah let's wait until the real tour begins.

 

[Athlai]

Henry's improved in the last 2 years? Really?

Better than he was on debut and he only debuted 2 years ago.

 

[Zinzan]

Better than he was on debut and he only debuted 2 years ago.

You for real? I think he's worse than when he debuted in ODIs 2 and a bit years ago. You don't remember his 4-fer on debut against India or his impressive spells in the UAE in late 2014? The very reason we were all gushing over his potential.

Even at FC level he's not bowling nearly as well as he was 2-3 years ago..

Strange that you see it the total opposite way...

 

[Athlai]

You for real? I think he's worse than when he debuted in ODIs 2 and a bit years ago. You don't remember his 4-fer on debut against India or his impressive spells in the UAE in late 2014? The very reason we were all gushing over his potential.

Even at FC level he's not bowling nearly as well as he was 2-3 years ago..

Strange that you see it the total opposite way...

I definitely thought his efforts earlier this year were some of his finest.

 

[Zinzan]

You definitely can't be talking about his two tests vs. Australia then, 2 matches, 2 wickets for 292 @ an average of 146 or his FC returns.......

Presumably you mean one of the ODIs or T20 games?

 

[Athlai]

I don't think Henry was particularly poor against Australia.

 

[Zinzan]

Huh? That's another argument all together, your claim was he's improved in the last 2 years. I see very little evidence either in his returns or in how threatening he's looked.

You sure it wasn't just an oversight to include his name as one of the improvers of the last 2 years?

 

[Athlai]

Henry wasn't bowling in red ball cricket two years ago, so yes I'm basing it mostly on his limited overs bowling. The bloke has 4 Tests to his name and I don't think there is any serious cause to think there has been any decline in his matches vs. England in England with the Duke and vs. Australia with the Kookaburra. We had a summer where the ball didn't swing for anyone. I think his limited overs bowling has shown that he is less swing reliant than when he first came on the scene and if Wagner weren't in such excellent form Henry would still be in the Test team.

 

[Daemon]

Is Bracewell really the 4th/5th best bowler in NZ? I can see the hype in Henry but this dude hasn't done anything since Hobart.

 

[Athlai]

Is Bracewell really the 4th/5th best bowler in NZ? I can see the hype in Henry but this dude hasn't done anything since Hobart.

Sorta. He is definitely 4th/5th in line, if not necessarily the 4th/5th guy who has the highest ceiling in our domestic scene.

 

[Zinzan]

Ironically, I think Bracewell is actually a better ODI candidate these days than Test bowler, something I'd have never said a couple of years back. His economy in his 6 ODIs in 2015/16 (2 vs SA, 3 vs SL & 1 vs Aust) was around 4.5 an over & his 9 wickets came at an average of 23.

 

[SteveNZ]

You for real? I think he's worse than when he debuted in ODIs 2 and a bit years ago. You don't remember his 4-fer on debut against India or his impressive spells in the UAE in late 2014? The very reason we were all gushing over his potential.

Even at FC level he's not bowling nearly as well as he was 2-3 years ago..

Strange that you see it the total opposite way...

Matt Henry the ODI bowler and Matt Henry the Test bowler are two very different beasts. The former is world-class to this day and pretty much was from ball one. The latter, how can we possibly know? He's played four Tests, I know he took 4 on debut with a Duke but the Bell ball apart he didn't actually bowl that well in helpful conditions. He's far from a Test-class bowler and won't really get the chance to prove himself to be so unless there's injury or significant drop in form to the 3 incumbents.

In the kindest possible way I could discuss him, he strikes me as Jimmy Anderson in his early career. Anderson was an ODI gun who didn't figure out Test cricket for 4-5 years, through the inability to be effective when not swinging it and because guys ahead of him were better, therefore his chances were limited. Issue for Henry in that regard is he'll do half his bowling in NZ with Kookas that need replacing every 8-10 overs, while Anderson has taken nigh on 300 wickets with juicy Dukes and overcast skies. Although to be fair to Anderson his record in the sub-continent is very good.

 

[Julian87]

So stoked for Sean Williams. What a gun.

 

[Bahnz]

You for real? I think he's worse than when he debuted in ODIs 2 and a bit years ago. You don't remember his 4-fer on debut against India or his impressive spells in the UAE in late 2014? The very reason we were all gushing over his potential.

I think he's at least as good in ODI's as he was when he started, which is very. He was excellent all last summer with the white ball, 23 wickets in 9 matches at 15.95 is pretty sensational. And yeah some of that was cheap wickets against a rubbish SRL, but he still picked up 8 wickets against Aus at less than 20 apiece.

 

[Zinzan]

Matt Henry the ODI bowler and Matt Henry the Test bowler are two very different beasts. The former is world-class to this day and pretty much was from ball one. The latter, how can we possibly know? He's played four Tests, I know he took 4 on debut with a Duke but the Bell ball apart he didn't actually bowl that well in helpful conditions. He's far from a Test-class bowler and won't really get the chance to prove himself to be so unless there's injury or significant drop in form to the 3 incumbents.

In the kindest possible way I could discuss him, he strikes me as Jimmy Anderson in his early career. Anderson was an ODI gun who didn't figure out Test cricket for 4-5 years, through the inability to be effective when not swinging it and because guys ahead of him were better, therefore his chances were limited. Issue for Henry in that regard is he'll do half his bowling in NZ with Kookas that need replacing every 8-10 overs, while Anderson has taken nigh on 300 wickets with juicy Dukes and overcast skies. Although to be fair to Anderson his record in the sub-continent is very good.

I think he's at least as good in ODI's as he was when he started, which is very. He was excellent all last summer with the white ball, 23 wickets in 9 matches at 15.95 is pretty sensational. And yeah some of that was cheap wickets against a rubbish SRL, but he still picked up 8 wickets against Aus at less than 20 apiece.

I was meaning overall bowling (red and white ball along his FC numbers over the last 2-3 years) since we were talking about our Test attack.

However for the purpose of discussion, even if we were solely talking white ball, I think he's at best on par with where he was 2 years ago & definitely wouldn't be citing him as one of the improvers of the last couple of years as Athers had.

 

[hendrix]

Indeed