-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
*Official* Pakistan in England and Ireland 2016
- Thread starter Grumpy
- Start date
I don't actually see any problem at all with the "six bowler" option because it is not really a "normal" six bowler option. The point is that Moeen is a highly talented batsman who is probably batting too low at eight, partly because it doesn't give him enough responsibility. You need to also consider that both Bairstow and Stokes are probably too low at seven, except that is where one of them will otherwise have to bat. And it's not like the batting is signficantly weakened with Woakes and Rashid at 8 and 9.
In such circumstances Rashid doesn't have to bowl at all in the first innings and is the batting really significantly weakened by the loss of Vince/Ballance?
In such circumstances Rashid doesn't have to bowl at all in the first innings and is the batting really significantly weakened by the loss of Vince/Ballance?
Groundking
International Debutant
No he's not, he's far far too loose to be batting in top 6, and the highest he should ever bat is 7, which incidentally is where he's got his two tons. I doubt Stokes will be any better moved up a notch, and he's working well there, and with the frailty of our top order I really don't want Bairstow coming in at 5, as that's potentially no rest time considering he'll most likely be keeping going forwards.
Keep it
6. Stokes
7. Bairstwow
8. Moeen
It's been working really well for us and is a big part of why we've been so strong in the past 18 months, it's the one part of our batting that's worked.
Well we'll see - but i'm not advocating Moeen batting in the top 6. I think having Moeen at 8 and Woakes at 9 is leaving a lot of runs in the dressing room, so moving everyone up at the expense of Vince/Ballance doesn't seem a great loss.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I'd be completely against ever playing five seamers; it'd just be a complete waste and a cop-out selection to avoid making a hard decision. Four seamers + both Moeen and Rashid is an interesting option though -- not one I'd go for personally because I think you'd get more value out of the extra bat, but it wouldn't be a complete cop out in the same way picking five seamers would, because each bowler would still have a role.
Groundking
International Debutant
I think you should just pick your best bowlers. If you're best bowlers happen to be 5 seamers so what? It's not like Moeen has been contributing with the ball recently anyway, and the other options for spin after him are even worse.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
If think you should pick your best attack rather than best individual bowlers.. but it's true that your best attack doesn't always necessarily have a spinner in it. My point was that five seamers is just a massive waste of resources, particularly (as it would be in this case) if some of them are very similar. If I was given a team with five seamers in it as a captain there's a fair chance I'd just not use of them.
I'd much sooner pick a team with four seamers and no spinner than I would five seamers and no spinner. Even if it somehow meant I'd be batting a specialist batsman at nine, I think I'd get more value out of those tailend runs than a fifth seamer unless the seamers were all very different or one of them was only good for two short spells a day or something like that.
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
I have a horrible feeling they won't.
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
What's the weather forecast like for the next 5 days?
Adders
Cricketer Of The Year
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
So when's the best time to bat at Old Trafford? Is it a win the toss bat first pitch or win the toss, roll them over and then bat on Day 2-3?
Scaly piscine
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
You what? Bowled fine and got out early batting at 8 or thereabouts. He's always vulnerable early in his innings.
Back it up with something.
Scaly piscine
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I find it odd that England found out that the same two spinners in UAE were absolute cannon fodder and after Moeen on his own was absolute cannon fodder again but got gifted two big wickets in the second innings that the answer to England's problems is to pick another spinner and have the same two spinners again. Moeen has gotten worse than before if anything. Even if the pitch does a bit for spinners those two haven't shown anything to suggest they'll be more effective than the seamers.
Medium term I'd like to see how Woakes can handle batting higher up the order. So he has more of a chance to show whether he's a genuine all-rounder or a bowler who bats, and bat properly. It is unfair to him batting at 9. Particularly with Broad's pathetic bunny efforts of late. I don't think he's suited to becoming more aggressive with the tail. Has a pretty awful List A record, but oddly a much better T20 one. So perhaps in future he'll crack how to play that role.
Personally I'd play Rashid, drop Moeen and have Root roll his arm over more often. Move Woakes up to 8.
Medium term I'd like to see how Woakes can handle batting higher up the order. So he has more of a chance to show whether he's a genuine all-rounder or a bowler who bats, and bat properly. It is unfair to him batting at 9. Particularly with Broad's pathetic bunny efforts of late. I don't think he's suited to becoming more aggressive with the tail. Has a pretty awful List A record, but oddly a much better T20 one. So perhaps in future he'll crack how to play that role.
Personally I'd play Rashid, drop Moeen and have Root roll his arm over more often. Move Woakes up to 8.
Top_Cat
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Got 'im, Burgey.
Daemon
Request Your Custom Title Now!
How is batting at 8 an excuse to score single digits in 2 innings?
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
The role of the fifth seamer if they were to be selected instead of Ali for this test would be to not to let the Pakistan batsman off the hook(as has happened when Ali, Rashid or Patel have bowled against them in recent tests), and to make sure the fast bowlers aren't bowling 22/23 overs a day (as they would if you picked just 4 seamers) if they have to bowl 90 overs in a day. Wouldn't matter if bowlers were doing similar things. It would mean Pakistan would have to change their plan default plan of attack of defending pace and attacking spin. Stokes and Woakes are allrounders so it wouldn't significantly worsen the batting- and the argument could be made that Stokes was/is a better bat than Ballance/Vince.
I wouldn't do it this test as Old Trafford does take turn and bounce - and the warm weather, but at a lords or edgbaston given the players at England's disposal and Pakistans strengths I think it's one of the unique cases where you could play 5 seamers. Certainly I find it less preposterous than playing 2 **** spinners in England against Pakistan.
Howe_zat
Audio File
What a perfect number 3