The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Gob]

Since 90.

Graeme Smith
Kumar Sangakkara
Ricky Ponting
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Steve Waugh
Adam Gilchrist
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Curtly Ambrose
Glenn McGrath


Sanga batting out of position but wgaf

My team is way better

 

[Red]

If you hate Hayden and Sehwag then pick Dravid as opener imo. Better fit for the opening slot than Sanga. I reckon he would've been an ATG opener if he'd done it for most of his career.

Nah, Sanga would be better there.

My team is way better

No, mine is way better.

 

[jimmy101]

When we say since '90, what does that mean? If it means debuted after 1990, then Sachin needs to be taken out of these teams.

 

[jimmy101]

When we say since '90, what does that mean? If it means debuted after 1990, then Sachin needs to be taken out of these teams.

EDIT: Curtly, Tugga & Wasim too.

 

[The Battlers Prince]

A team off the top of my head of guys I never saw the career of...Aussies
Unseen Australia XI
1. Bob Simpson
2. Victor Trumper
3. Don Bradman*
4. Charles Macartney
5. Greg Chappell
6. Keith Miller
7. Richie Benaud
8. Don Tallon+
9. Jack Gregory
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Bill O'Reilly

I think that it's less biased if I've not seen a career of someone. So based just on stories, articles and some YouTube clips that remember the best of players this is my unseen Aussie XI.

 

[harsh.ag]

A team off the top of my head of guys I never saw the career of...Aussies
Unseen Australia XI
1. Bob Simpson
2. Victor Trumper
3. Don Bradman*
4. Charles Macartney
5. Greg Chappell
6. Keith Miller
7. Richie Benaud
8. Don Tallon+
9. Jack Gregory
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Bill O'Reilly

I think that it's less biased if I've not seen a career of someone. So based just on stories, articles and some YouTube clips that remember the best of players this is my unseen Aussie XI.

Lindwall? Harvey?

 

[The Battlers Prince]

Lindwall? Harvey?

I know! I had both in at different times, and Grimmett and Blackham and one in particular I like Jeff Thomson. I think he's unbelievable in the affect he has on an attack. But his role is with Miller as the fast man

 

[Red]

Australia

Victor Trumper
Bill Lawry
Don Bradman *
Greg Chappell
Keith Miller
Neil Harvey
Adam Gilchrist +
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Bill OReilly
Glenn McGrath

Ray Lindwall --- Alan Davidson --- Ricky Ponting --- Arthur Morris --- Ian Healy


England

Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Wally Hammond
Peter May *
Dennis Compton
Ian Botham
Alan Knott +
Hedley Verity
Harold Larwood
SF Barnes
Fred Trueman

Brian Statham --- John Snow --- David Gower --- Graham Gooch --- Les Ames

West Indies

Gordon Greenidge
Frank Worrell *
George Headley
Brian Lara
Viv Richards
Gary Sobers
Jeff Dujon +
Malcolm Marshall
Michael Holding
Curtly Ambrose
Lance Gibbs

Joel Garner --- Andy Roberts --- Everton Weekes --- Desmond Haynes --- Clyde Walcott


South Africa

Barry Richards
Graeme Smith *
Jaques Kallis
Graeme Pollock
AB DeVilliers
Aubrey Faulkner
Dennis Lindsay +
Mike Procter
Dale Steyn
Hugh Tayfield
Allan Donald

Shaun Pollock --- Neil Adcock --- Dudley Nourse --- Bruce Mitchell --- Hashim Amla


India

Sunil Gavaskar
Vijay Merchant
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Gundappa Viswanath
Vijay Hazare
Vinoo Mankad
Kapil Dev *
MS Dhoni +
Mohammed Nissar
Bishen Bedi

Javagal Srinath --- Anil Kumble --- VVS Laxman --- Virender Sehwag --- Farohk Engineer

 

[watson]

All those teams are spot on I reckon except for the Indian team which is a bowler short. Because India lacks fast bowlers like Marshall, Trueman, McGrath or Steyn I think that the best option is to go for depth and variety. I think that Gupte is almost a must as his classical leg-spin googly bowling gives the captain an attacking option which is capable of rolling any batting order on a good day. The Indian captain needs 'go to' attacking options.

01. Sunil Gavaskar
02. Vijay Merchant
03. Rahul Dravid
04. Sachin Tendulkar
05. Gundappa Vishwanath
06. Vinoo Mankad
07. MS Dhoni
08. Kapil Dev
09. Amar Singh
10. Mohammad Nisser
11. Subhash Gupte

 

[Red]

New Zealand

Stewie Dempster
Glenn Turner
Kane Williamson
Martin Crowe *
Martin Donnelly
Ross Taylor
Brendon McCullum +
Chris Cairns
Dan Vettori
Richard Hadlee
Shand Bond

Ewan Chatfield --- Jack Cowie--- Stephen Fleming --- Andrew Jones --- Ian Smith


Pakistan

Saeed Anwar
Hanif Mohammed
Younis Khan
Javed Miandad
Zaheer Abbas
Inzamam ul Haq
Imran Khan *
Wasim Akram
Wasim Bari +
Abdul Qadir
Waqar Younis

Fazal Mahmood --- Shoaib Akhtar --- Mohammed Yousuf --- Saleem Malik --- Rashid Latif

 

[jimmy101]

Would love to see these teams/squads battle it out in some kind of round robin Test tournament:

Australia late 1940's

1 S Barnes
2 A Morris
3 D Bradman c
4 N Harvey
5 L Hassett
6 K Miller
7 I Johnson
8 R Lindwall
9 D Tallon +
10 B Johnston
11 E Toshack

B Brown/C McCool/S Loxton/D Ring/G Tribe

This team has ridiculous amounts of strength in every department, although the spin department isn't as strong as it could be as I chose to omit O'Reilly because he only played just one Test after the war & I'm pretty sure the match wasn't considered an official Test match at the time.


England mid 1950's

1 L Hutton c
2 B Edrich
3 P May
4 D Compton
5 C Cowdrey
6 T Graveney
7 G Evans +
8 J Laker
9 F Trueman
10 A Bedser
11 B Statham

C Washbrook/T Bailey/T Lock/J Wardle/F Tyson

Often underrated when it comes to ATG teams consideration, England in the 50's were a juggernaut. I could have even included Ken Barrington, who debuted in 1955, but chose not to because he didn't become fully entrenched in the team until 1959 under Peter May's captaincy.


South Africa early 1970's

1 B Richards
2 J Cook
3 H Ackerman
4 G Pollock c
5 E Barlow
6 L Irvine
7 D Lindsay +
8 C Rice
9 M Procter
10 P Pollock
11 J Traicos

T Goddard/T Lance/A Kourie/P Trimborn/V van der Bijl

The ultimate 'what if'. I chose to pick a squad featuring players such as Rice, Ackerman, Kourie, Cook & van der Bijl who didn't play any Tests, but were all selected to represent South Africa on the aborted tours of England (1970) & Australia (1971-72).


West Indies early 1980's

1 G Greenidge
2 D Haynes
3 V Richards
4 A Kallicharran
5 L Gomes
6 C Lloyd c
7 J Dujon +
8 M Marshall
9 A Roberts
10 M Holding
11 J Garner

L Rowe/F Bacchus/W Daniel/C Croft/S Clarke

And of course we have the Windies under the captaincy of Lloyd. Bulletproof.


Australia early 2000's

1 M Hayden
2 J Langer
3 R Ponting
4 D Martyn
5 M Waugh
6 S Waugh c
7 A Gilchrist +
8 S Warne
9 B Lee
10 J Gillespie
11 G McGrath

M Slater/D Lehmann/D Fleming/M Kasprowicz/S MacGill

Finally, we have the core group of Australians who were instrumental in securing a record 16 Test match victories in a row from 1999 to 2001. Steve Waugh considered his team to be an 'XI of Prizefighters'.

Who would win?....

 

[StephenZA]

I`ve never put together my South African XI so......

01. B.A. Richards
02. B. Mitchell / G.C. Smith
03. H.M. Amla
04. J.H. Kallis (5)
05. R.G. Pollock
06. A.D. Nourse *
07. C.E.B Rice / M.J. Procter / G.A. Faulkner (3)
08. J.H.B. Waite+
09. H J. Tayfield (4)
10. D.W. Steyn (1)
11. A.A. Donald (2)

So I cant make my mind up over Smith or Mitchell, but gun to the head would probably choose Mitchell. Similar with Rice and Procter, would choose Rice. Looked at putting them both in, but unbalances the team with to many fast paced men and not enough batting. Could also possibly be replaced by Faulkner, but still rate Rice higher. Biggest surprise for most would probably be Amla. I rate Amla very highly, I believe he and Kallis were the backbone of the SA team in the recent peak and I definitely rate him higher than AB. AB has a great deal of talent but I prefer Amla's temperament.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

South Africa early 1970's

1 B Richards
2 J Cook
3 H Ackerman
4 G Pollock c
5 E Barlow
6 L Irvine
7 D Lindsay +
8 C Rice
9 M Procter
10 P Pollock
11 J Traicos

T Goddard/T Lance/A Kourie/P Trimborn/V van der Bijl

The ultimate 'what if'. I chose to pick a squad featuring players such as Rice, Ackerman, Kourie, Cook & van der Bijl who didn't play any Tests, but were all selected to represent South Africa on the aborted tours of England (1970) & Australia (1971-72).

I don't think Jimmy Cook was chosen for any aborted tours. He hadn't even played First Class at that time.

 

[ImpatientLime]

an england all time odi xi is such a **** show.

trescothick
knight
root
pietersen
flintoff
buttler
collingwood
botham
swann
gough
anderson

gough and flintoff though, that is some serious death bowling. mind your toes.

 

[jimmy101]

I don't think Jimmy Cook was chosen for any aborted tours. He hadn't even played First Class at that time.

You're right. Serves me right for using a wikipedia page for reference. Kourie wasn't even selected either. The SA team would probably look more like this:

South Africa early 1970's

1 B Richards
2 T Goddard
3 A Bacher c
4 G Pollock
5 E Barlow
6 H Ackerman
7 D Lindsay +
8 C Rice
9 M Procter
10 P Pollock
11 J Traicos

L Irvine/T Lance/D Hobson/P Trimborn/V van der Bijl

 

[The Battlers Prince]

Would love to see these teams/squads battle it out in some kind of round robin Test tournament:

Australia early 2000's

1 M Hayden
2 J Langer
3 R Ponting
4 D Martyn
5 M Waugh
6 S Waugh c
7 A Gilchrist +
8 S Warne
9 B Lee
10 J Gillespie
11 G McGrath

M Slater/D Lehmann/D Fleming/M Kasprowicz/S MacGill

Finally, we have the core group of Australians who were instrumental in securing a record 16 Test match victories in a row from 1999 to 2001. Steve Waugh considered his team to be an 'XI of Prizefighters'.

Who would win?....

Andy Bichel forever carrying the drinks to a less talented Bollywood actor. All seriousness, was Bich not close to a Guernsey?

 

[a massive zebra]

Would love to see these teams/squads battle it out in some kind of round robin Test tournament:

Australia late 1940's

1 S Barnes
2 A Morris
3 D Bradman c
4 N Harvey
5 L Hassett
6 K Miller
7 I Johnson
8 R Lindwall
9 D Tallon +
10 B Johnston
11 E Toshack

B Brown/C McCool/S Loxton/D Ring/G Tribe

This team has ridiculous amounts of strength in every department, although the spin department isn't as strong as it could be as I chose to omit O'Reilly because he only played just one Test after the war & I'm pretty sure the match wasn't considered an official Test match at the time.


England mid 1950's

1 L Hutton c
2 B Edrich
3 P May
4 D Compton
5 C Cowdrey
6 T Graveney
7 G Evans +
8 J Laker
9 F Trueman
10 A Bedser
11 B Statham

C Washbrook/T Bailey/T Lock/J Wardle/F Tyson

Often underrated when it comes to ATG teams consideration, England in the 50's were a juggernaut. I could have even included Ken Barrington, who debuted in 1955, but chose not to because he didn't become fully entrenched in the team until 1959 under Peter May's captaincy.


South Africa early 1970's

1 B Richards
2 J Cook
3 H Ackerman
4 G Pollock c
5 E Barlow
6 L Irvine
7 D Lindsay +
8 C Rice
9 M Procter
10 P Pollock
11 J Traicos

T Goddard/T Lance/A Kourie/P Trimborn/V van der Bijl

The ultimate 'what if'. I chose to pick a squad featuring players such as Rice, Ackerman, Kourie, Cook & van der Bijl who didn't play any Tests, but were all selected to represent South Africa on the aborted tours of England (1970) & Australia (1971-72).


West Indies early 1980's

1 G Greenidge
2 D Haynes
3 V Richards
4 A Kallicharran
5 L Gomes
6 C Lloyd c
7 J Dujon +
8 M Marshall
9 A Roberts
10 M Holding
11 J Garner

L Rowe/F Bacchus/W Daniel/C Croft/S Clarke

And of course we have the Windies under the captaincy of Lloyd. Bulletproof.


Australia early 2000's

1 M Hayden
2 J Langer
3 R Ponting
4 D Martyn
5 M Waugh
6 S Waugh c
7 A Gilchrist +
8 S Warne
9 B Lee
10 J Gillespie
11 G McGrath

M Slater/D Lehmann/D Fleming/M Kasprowicz/S MacGill

Finally, we have the core group of Australians who were instrumental in securing a record 16 Test match victories in a row from 1999 to 2001. Steve Waugh considered his team to be an 'XI of Prizefighters'.

Who would win?....

All absolutely incredible sides, but purely from a batting perspective I think the England side of the late 1920s was just as good if not better than any of them:

1 J Hobbs
2 H Sutcliffe
3 W Hammond
4 P Hendren
5 P Mead
6 D Jardine
7 L Ames
8 M Tate
9 H Larwood
10 C Parker
11 T Freeman

M Leyland/E Tyldesley/F Woolley/G Geary/J White

I would put my money on West Indies personally. Absolutely brutal bowling with plenty of all time great batsmen. I don't think any team will get close to their record of fifteen years without a series defeat in my lifetime. Unstoppable!

 

[a massive zebra]

Universally Challenged XI - a selection of the worst Test cricketers ever (minimum 10 tests):

Mark Dekker (left-hand bat; 14 tests for Zimbabwe between 1993 and 1996, 333 runs @ 15.85)
William Shalders (right-hand bat; 12 tests for South Africa between 1899 and 1907, 355 runs @ 16.13)
Maitland Hathorn (right-hand bat; 12 tests for South Africa between 1902 and 1911, 325 runs @ 17.10)
Louis Stricker (right-hand bat; 13 tests for South Africa between 1910 and 1912, 344 runs @ 14.33)
Noel McGregor (right-hand bat & captain; 25 tests for New Zealand between 1955 and 1965, 892 runs @ 19.82 with one century)
C.S. Nayudu (right-hand bat & right arm leg break and googly bowler; 11 tests for India between 1934 and 1952, 147 runs @ 9.18 and 2 wickets @ 179.50)
Ken James (right-hand bat & wicket keeper; 11 tests for New Zealand between 1930 and 1933, 52 runs @ 4.72, 11 catches and 5 stumpings)
Asoka de Silva (right arm leg break and googly bowler; 10 tests for Sri Lanka between 1985 and 1991, 185 runs @ 15.41 and 8 wickets @ 129.00)
Mohammad Sharif (right-arm medium-fast bowler; 10 tests for Bangladesh between 2001 and 2007, 122 runs @ 7.17 and 14 wickets @ 79.00)
Andy Whittall (right arm off break bowler; 10 tests for Zimbabwe between 1996 and 1999, 114 runs @ 7.60 and 7 wickets @ 105.14)
Rubel Hossain (right-arm fast bowler; 23 tests for Bangladesh between 2009 and 2015, 197 runs @ 8.95 and 32 wickets @ 75.90 with one 5 wicket haul)

By necessity rather than intention, this team is made up entirely of players from the early stages of their countries life as a Test nation. No batsmen with an average over 20 and no frontline bowlers with an average under 75 are included. Pretty impressive! A few other frontline batsmen have worse Test batting averages than Noel McGregor who did make a Test century, but they all have considerably better first class records than the Kiwi who achieved very mediocre results in both Tests and FCC. With a little more luck, I would imagine these players (including Neil Fairbrother, Arthur Jones and Saleem Elahi) may have had the ability to comfortably outperform McGregor. Also, Rubel Hussain has a Test 5for but a bowling average of over 75 in Tests and over 60 in First class cricket is absolutely atrocious for a frontline bowler. A few of the other bowlers actually have decent first class records but I would imagine the standard of First Class cricket in those peripheral stages of their countries existence as a Test nation was well short of what it would later become.

The combined batting average of this team is 136.26 and the average bowling average of the 5 frontline bowlers is 113.71, so in theory this team would have to bat 8.34 times to match the first innings score of a typical Test nation!

 

[AndrewB]

All absolutely incredible sides, but purely from a batting perspective I think the England side of the late 1920s was just as good if not better than any of them:

1 J Hobbs
2 H Sutcliffe
3 W Hammond
4 P Hendren
5 P Mead
6 D Jardine
7 L Ames
8 M Tate
9 H Larwood
10 C Parker
11 T Freeman

M Leyland/E Tyldesley/F Woolley/G Geary/J White

I would put my money on West Indies personally. Absolutely brutal bowling with plenty of all time great batsmen. I don't think any team will get close to their record of fifteen years without a series defeat in my lifetime. Unstoppable!

Parker's only Test was in 1921. Hobbs-Sutcliffe-Mead-Hammond-Jardine-Hendren-Chapman-Tate-Larwood-White-Duckworth (Brisbane 1928) I think is the closest to the team above to play a Test.

 

[a massive zebra]

Parker's only Test was in 1921.

Yes, but Parker was an outstanding bowler throughout the 1920s and would have played many more tests if he had been a less outspoken individual who kept on the right side of those in authority such as Lord Harris.