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All-time XI: England

the big bambino

International Captain
Wally Hammond spent a match avoiding Johnny Douglas after he refused to walk when Douglas thought he was caught. Then he bounced a few at Douglas the next day. Whenever Douglas went searching for Hammond off the pitch he couldn't find him. Douglas was an Olympic middle weight gold medallist.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
First XI

Jack Hobbs
Herbert Sutcliffe
Len Hutton (c)
Ken Barrington
Wally Hammond (6)
WG Grace (5)
Alan Knott (wk)
Fred Trueman (1)
Harold Larwood (3)
Hedley Verity (4)
Sydney Barnes (2)

Second XI

Geoff Boycott
Graham Gooch
Peter May (c)
Denis Compton
Kevin Pietersen
Ian Botham (5)
Les Ames (wk)
John Snow (2)
Alec Bedser (3)
Jimmy Anderson (1)
Jim Laker (4)

Third XI

Alastair Cook
Marcus Trescothick
Ted Dexter
Colin Cowdrey
David Gower
Alec Stewart (wk)
Andrew Flintoff (3)
Stuart Broad (2)
Bob Willis (1)
Derek Underwood (4)
Johnny Wardle (5)
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Hobbs
Hutton
Ranji
May
Hammond
Grace
Botham
Knott +
Larwood
Trueman
Barnes


Sutcliffe
Gooch
Barrington
Compton
Gower
Woolley
Ames +
Rhodes
Snow
Bedser
Statham


Boycott
Cook
Cowdrey
Root
Pietersen
Flintoff
Verity
Taylor +
Tyson
Willis
Underwood
 
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watson

Banned
01. Jack Hobbs
02. Len Hutton
03. Ted Dexter
04. Ken Barrington
05. Walter Hammond
06. Ian Botham
07. Alan Knott
08. Hedley Verity
09. Harold Larwood
10. Fred Trueman
11. Sydney Barnes


01. WG Grace
02. Herbert Sutcliffe
03. Kumar Ranjitsinjhi
04. Peter May
05. Denis Compton
06. Frank Woolley
07. Les Ames
08. Wilfred Rhodes
09. John Snow
10. Alec Bedser
11. Brian Statham


01. Geoff Boycott
02. Graham Gooch
03. Colin Cowdrey
04. Kevin Pietersen
05. David Gower
06. Tony Greig
07. Godfrey Evans
08. Maurice Tate
09. Jim Laker
10. Frank Tyson
11. Bob Willis


01. Alistair Cook
02. John Edrich
03. Tom Graveney
04. Graham Thorpe
05. Maurice Leyland
06. Andrew Flintoff
07. Ray Illingworth
08. Jack Russell
09. Stuart Broad
10. Derek Underwood
11. James Anderson
 
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watson

Banned
Greig over Flintoff? Not paying that.
Fair enough, but with Evans coming in at number 7 I wanted a better batsman at 6. But yeah, if Knott or Ames are the keepers then Flintoff fits at 6.

Greig averaged 40.54 in the Lillee n' Thomo series and 30.37 in the 'Grovel' series. Pretty amazing efforts for an allrounder seeing as both sets of bowlers tried to knock his block off. Especially Holding and Roberts.

Flintoff did average 40.20 in the 2005 Ashes, but Greig was always more consistent both home and away. Botham averaged 36.27 in his iconic 1981 Ashes.
 
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91Jmay

International Coach
Flintoff is always better suited to bat 5, think he averaged in the 40s there. Would struggle to get him into a All time team as a 5 though admittedly.
 

Biryani Pillow

U19 Vice-Captain
I'll float one:

1, Jack Hobbs - Quite possibly the finest opening batsman of all time. Pretty hard to argue that he wasn't the top batsman in the world between 1909 and 1926. A certain choice
2. Len Hutton - Probably having a greater range of strokes than Herbert Sutcliffe gets him in.
3. W.G.Grace - If Test cricket had started a few years earlier this would not even be a question IMO. Most pictures portray the latter WG when he had put on massive amounts of weight but for the early years of Test cricket, when he was still very athletic, he's likely have been the first name down for any Test XI. I'll take that WG.
4. Walter Hammond: Capable of destroying any bowler on his day, did have inconsistent periods. Excellent extra bowler and outstanding fielder anywhere.
5. Maurice Leyland: Need a left hander and he has a fine Test record. A good man to stop a collapse or go on the attack.
6. Ian Botham: Obvious choice. All rounder as capable as anyone in history of turning a game. Could do it with bat or ball. How many of his great performances turned or won Test matches?
7. Wilfred Rhodes: Another obvious choice. Probably among the 4 best SLA bowlers ever (Blythe and Verity would be two of the other 3) - maybe best of all. Also good enough to open the batting in Tests and do well.
8. Alan Knott: Personally Bob Taylor just shades him as the best keeper I've seen but historians certainly rate him up there - and his batting secures the spot.
9. Derek Underwood: A spinner of a different kind. Capable of slowing down the scoring of the finest players on a flat pitch and if their was much help would frequently run through a side. If I decided on an off spinner I wouldn't look past Swann. For another seam bowler either Tate or, a late runner, Anderson.
10. Sydney Barnes: Enough good judges attest to his high quality, even in the latter years of his career, that there is little doubt in my mind how good he was. A fast medium, front of the hand, spin bowler who turned it both ways and possibly 'read' a batsman as well as anyone.
11. Tom Richardson: A left field pick. I don't buy Trueman's self publicity - he also played at a pretty weak period of Test cricket. Larwood doesn't have a great sample size to go on although the Bodyline series (on generally flat pitches) stands with the work of anyone. Richardson, for 7 or 8 seasons (including overseas tours) has an incredible wicket taking record. Capable of bowling at great pace for long periods and getting good batsman out, even on very flat pitches.

2nd XI:
Sutcliffe
Cook
Compton
Barrington
Thorpe
Flintoff
Evans
Tate
Swann
Verity
Larwood


Hoping Evans is in form because there's a bit of a tail - although they can all make runs. Cook gets in because of the mountains he scores when in nick. Swann did his bowling in the era of covered pitches (most of Laker's notable spells came on rain damaged pitches - imagine Swann on those:eek:).

A delightfully nuggety 4 & 5 combo, with rather different styles either side.

3rd XI:
Boycott
Gooch (Ideally have him at 3 but there's too much additional middle order talent to fit in)
Ranji
May
Gower
The Hon F.S.Jackson
Ames
Peel
Trueman
Anderson
Blythe

Due to business commitments Jackson didn't play nearly as much FC cricket, to say nothing of Test cricket as he should have done but he was clearly and outstanding player (he should have captained England when Grace stepped down according to many). He was an outstanding batsman in a crisis and clearly (but quietly) a fine bowler as well.

Peel would be in the argument for the top SLA bowlers - and a very strong batsman as well.

For the last few years Anderson has been consistently as challenging as any seamer I can recall since Hadlee.

A century stand involving Ranji and Gower would be rather fun to watch I reckon.
 
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hallmitchell

School Boy/Girl Captain
This is Don Bradman's all time England XI.
England:

Jack Hobbs

Len Hutton

Denis Compton

Peter May

Wally Hammond

WG Grace

Godfrey Evans

Fred Trueman

Alec Bedser

SF Barnes

Hedley Verity

Ian Botham (12th man).
 

Flametree

International 12th Man
I find picking English xi's virtually impossible, as it's impossible to judge the merits of the pre WW1 players. Do you include Grace for his first class record? What to make of the bowling averages of Lohmann, Peel, Blythe, Briggs? If we discount them because pitches were so bad, then should we upgrade any batsmen with decent numbers so players like Hayward, Abel and Shrewsbury get to be considered? What role does Rhodes play? And was Barnes a genuine seamer or a spinner? Is an attack of say Trueman Botham Barnes Rhodes Laker (+Hammond) unbalanced with three spinner types? I see a lot of xi's with 2x quicks + Barnes + Botham + Hammond and I think that's too many seamers, Plus if Botham is at 6 and Knott at 7 and say Verity at 8 the lower-order is weaker than other sides.
 

watson

Banned
I find picking English xi's virtually impossible, as it's impossible to judge the merits of the pre WW1 players. Do you include Grace for his first class record? What to make of the bowling averages of Lohmann, Peel, Blythe, Briggs? If we discount them because pitches were so bad, then should we upgrade any batsmen with decent numbers so players like Hayward, Abel and Shrewsbury get to be considered? What role does Rhodes play? And was Barnes a genuine seamer or a spinner? Is an attack of say Trueman Botham Barnes Rhodes Laker (+Hammond) unbalanced with three spinner types? I see a lot of xi's with 2x quicks + Barnes + Botham + Hammond and I think that's too many seamers, Plus if Botham is at 6 and Knott at 7 and say Verity at 8 the lower-order is weaker than other sides.
WG fits easily into his opening spot in an ATG team, but I normally include Hobbs and Hutton instead because I can't see how WG could be technically better than either of those batsman on any kind of wicket - flat or sticky.

Picking Rhodes or some other spinner like Peel, Verity, or Underwood is a win-win sitation as they are all good. I generally go Verity or Rhodes to shore up the batting strength of the tail.

Trueman, Larwood, and Snow are all bona fide great quicks so there is no problem there.

As for Barnes, he was a genius who succeeded even on the best of wickets because of his pace, bounce, swerve, and turn.

I think that Larwood, Trueman, and Barnes are a lock-in, although there is good justification for choosing Snow over Larwood because Snow didn't need Bodyline fields to blast out Australian batsman on their home turf.

I'm about the only person who picks Ted Dexter at No.3. I see him as the quintessential first drop - loves fast bowling and at his best when counter-attacking the fast bowlers, and all with a 50 plus average in that position. He was also best mates with Garry Sobers who would stay at his place for weekends and play golf. They both respected eachother enormously, as mates and cricketers.
 
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mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Let's get the surefire inclusions out of the way:


Hobbs
Hutton
Hammond
Barnes
Trueman


honestly everyone else a case can be justified for their exclusion
 

Biryani Pillow

U19 Vice-Captain
I find picking English xi's virtually impossible, as it's impossible to judge the merits of the pre WW1 players. Do you include Grace for his first class record? What to make of the bowling averages of Lohmann, Peel, Blythe, Briggs? If we discount them because pitches were so bad, then should we upgrade any batsmen with decent numbers so players like Hayward, Abel and Shrewsbury get to be considered? What role does Rhodes play? And was Barnes a genuine seamer or a spinner? Is an attack of say Trueman Botham Barnes Rhodes Laker (+Hammond) unbalanced with three spinner types? I see a lot of xi's with 2x quicks + Barnes + Botham + Hammond and I think that's too many seamers, Plus if Botham is at 6 and Knott at 7 and say Verity at 8 the lower-order is weaker than other sides.
Pitches in the 1800s could be bad but could also be easy to bat on. They were totally uncovered after the start of the game so could vary a lot. Hayward certainly justifies a mention, the same with the likes of Stoddart I reckon. Barnes was a fast medium bowler who happened to spin the ball. Botham wouldn't be a weak player at 6 in any team.

Let's get the surefire inclusions out of the way:


Hobbs
Hutton
Hammond
Barnes
Trueman


honestly everyone else a case can be justified for their exclusion
I wouldn't pick Trueman.
 

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