Greatest Limited Overs All-rounder of all time, tournament/voting thread

[weldone]

It's difficult to make a choice here.

Basically it boils down to whether I should favour;

1. A powerfull top order batsman who was also an effecient bowler, or

2. An accurate bowling miser who was also a hard hitting middle-order batsman at 6 and 7.

Both their stats are impressive with absolute peaks that lasted 3-4 years.

Do I assume you have never watched Kapil bowl?

 

[smash84]

kapil would definitely give you more longevity and fitness. Twatto far too prone to injuries

 

[Kirkut]

Couple Dave.

 

[smash84]

kapil

 

[watson]

Watching Shane Watson in action, and looking at his raw stats I would have to say that he was a slightly better allrounder than Kapil Dev.

However, there is a wider context to their careers. That is, Kapil was far more important to the Indian cause than Watson was to the Australian cause.

Without Kapil's brilliance with the ball, and without his back-to-the-wall innings of 175 not out against Zimbabwe during the 1983 World Cup the Indian cricket team would have achieved only a fraction of the success that they enjoyed during the 1980s.

Because Kapil Dev operated with so much responsibility, and was under constant pressure to perform, I place him slightly ahead of Watson in terms of greatness.

 

[watson]

Do I assume you have never watched Kapil bowl?

Yes I watched him bowl. Do I assume that you didn't read the above article on Kapil.

 

[weldone]

Yes I watched him bowl. Do I assume that you didn't read the above article on Kapil.

Yes tl;dr. 'Accurate bowling miser' is the worst description of Kapil's bowling. The reason he had a great economy rate is because batsmen defended against him as they knew they could capitalise against the other bowlers if Kapil doesn't take too many wickets with the new ball; not because Kapil bowled defensively. He bowled aggressive lines with an attacking field - almost like in test matches. And the batsmen also played against him almost as if they were playing a test match.

 

[watson]

Yes tl;dr. 'Accurate bowling miser' is the worst description of Kapil's bowling. The reason he had a great economy rate is because batsmen defended against him as they knew they could capitalise against the other bowlers if Kapil doesn't take too many wickets with the new ball; not because Kapil bowled defensively. He bowled aggressive lines with an attacking field - almost like in test matches. And the batsmen also played against him almost as if they were playing a test match.

That may the case. But you still don't get the following results without being an accurate bowler. It's kind of necessary;

Of the 212 games in which he bowled at least five overs, 63 times he conceded fewer than three runs per over, which is 30% of those matches. Similarly, in another 32% his economy rate was between three and four. Only 34 times did he go at five or more per over.

 

[honestbharani]

Kapil

 

[weldone]

That may the case. But you still don't get the following results without being an accurate bowler. It's kind of necessary;

It depends on what you mean by accurate bowler. If you mean a McGrath-type accurate corridor-of-uncertainty type of bowler, then Kapil was not that.

Weren't Wasim Akram and Shane Warne accurate bowlers too? Yes, all very good/great attacking bowlers were 'accurate'.

I had a problem with 'accurate bowling miser' description.

 

[ankitj]

Pleasantly surprised that Kapil is in the final considering his batting average is 4 points below his bowling average. This is not to say he wasn't a very good all rounder but being a finalist in this play off is hard to justify IMO.

On the metrics of difference in averages, Kallis beats everyone in this knock out. But because he is not flamboyant, everyone's gotta find reasons to discredit him!

Watson is the second best on that metric and had enough firepower to be a genuine match winner, so he gets my vote. He often makes it to my first all time ODI XI too.

 

[viriya]

Pleasantly surprised that Kapil is in the final considering his batting average is 4 points below his bowling average. This is not to say he wasn't a very good all rounder but being a finalist in this play off is hard to justify IMO.

On the metrics of difference in averages, Kallis beats everyone in this knock out. But because he is not flamboyant, everyone's gotta find reasons to discredit him!

Watson is the second best on that metric and had enough firepower to be a genuine match winner, so he gets my vote. He often makes it to my first all time ODI XI too.

Average difference is a bad metric to evaluate all-rounders, especially ODI all-rounders where SR and Econ matters.

 

[watson]

It depends on what you mean by accurate bowler. If you mean a McGrath-type accurate corridor-of-uncertainty type of bowler, then Kapil was not that.

Weren't Wasim Akram and Shane Warne accurate bowlers too? Yes, all very good/great attacking bowlers were 'accurate'.

I had a problem with 'accurate bowling miser' description.

I mean this sort of accurate;

 

[weldone]

I mean this sort of accurate;

Be honest. You didn't mean this when you said 'accurate bowling miser'. Will you call Wasim Akram an 'accurate bowling miser', for example? He was very accurate too, wasn't he?

 

[kingkallis]

Kapil!

I have to read the entire thread to know how it actually came to this. Kapil & Watson, seriously?

 

[doesitmatter]

Kapil Dev Nikhanj ..anyday..anytime...Most naturally talented cricketer ..I know his bowling and batting is being talked about but what an athlete overall..This catch in the video is a proof.. nonchalantly pouches a difficult one..Normally an excellent outfielder with a super arm but here he is fielding in the slips..

https://youtu.be/EYNKm-NfjcA?t=846

 

[TheJediBrah]

Average difference is a bad metric to evaluate all-rounders, especially ODI all-rounders where SR and Econ matters.

still seems like a better metric than asking an internet forum of cricket fans to choose

 

[weldone]

still seems like a better metric than asking an internet forum of cricket fans to choose

no, if the forum is cw

 

[OverratedSanity]

Surprised the voting. Kapil was awesome but Watson and Flintoff are a level above him as odi all rounders imo

 

[harsh.ag]

Surprised the voting. Kapil was awesome but Watson and Flintoff are a level above him as odi all rounders imo

To be fair, Kapil was slightly ahead of his contemporary all-rounders in terms of ODI temperament, and performing big on the WC stage counts for a good deal too.