• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Greatest Limited Overs All-rounder of all time, tournament/voting thread

OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

Request Your Custom Title Now!
stphndbsn said:
Ultimately this is where our opinions differ Red Hill.... you put a far greater importance on SR than I do, otherwise Kallis stats are better. And his overall batting and bowling ability, in my opinion, are better, even in ODI`s. I consider Kallis`s lower SR as the part he had to play within the team he played for...

I think what this thread has shown me is that a larger majority of people expect an ODI all-rounder, to be a player who be 5/6th bowler and hit big at the end of an innings a la Symonds/Klusener (Symonds was a bit more than that). Kallis did not play that role so therefore imo appears under-appreciated.... and I think, in particular, Klusener is way overrated.
Click to expand...
Yeah, a lot of it comes down to what we think about when someone says "Greatest ODI all rounder". I don't really think of a batsman like Kallis/Dravid who while excellent and underappreciated as ODI batsmen, don't "fit" with the image that people have of an elite AR, which is either a big burly quick bowler who can smash sixes and take the game away from the opposition or a gun lower order attacker who can also bowl 10 mean overs. I think Kallis may actually be the better allrounder, but Symonds fits snugly into what I expect from the GOAT ODI AR much better than Kallis. He's a better candidate for the title despite arguably being worse. If that makes any sense.
 
G.I.Joe

G.I.Joe

International Coach
Red Hill said:
in spinning conditions Symonds is able to bowl decent offies.
Click to expand...
If if there's anything Sobers fanbois have taught us, it's that value is added when a bowler bowls spin in seaming conditions and seam in spinning conditions. Symonds adapting his trade to the conditions should therefore be considered a sign of intellectual vacuity.
 
TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Symonds takes it over Kallis easily as an ODI batsman, and probably as an All-rounder as well all though that would be a lot closer. Symonds ODI bowling was useful but nothing special.

Batting wise, Kallis has a higher average, but Kallis batted in the "easier" position in that respect. Field up early, not as many late-innings wicket-throwaways and obviously the differences in strike-rate is damning.

I can understand both points of view though, they are very different type of players and thus difficult to compare.
 
Red

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
stphndbsn said:
I never said that Kallis was an all time great ODI batsman... if he had a SR of 80+ plus then he would be in the league of Ponting as an ATG. .
Click to expand...
Yep, and that's a massive part of my point. He wasn't a great #3 ODI batsman.

stphndbsn said:
What I`m saying is that he was a better batsman than Symonds. I cant say anything if you think he had to bat as well as an elite batsman of his era to be a better all-rounder than Symonds....
Click to expand...
Sure he was a better batsman than Symonds but he wasn't a better one day batsman than Symonds. Symonds is among the elite of the batsmen who batted at 5/6. Kallis isn't among the elite top order batsmen. That's easy to understand.
 
Red

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
OverratedSanity said:
I think Kallis may actually be the better allrounder, but Symonds fits snugly into what I expect from the GOAT ODI AR much better than Kallis. He's a better candidate for the title despite arguably being worse. If that makes any sense.
Click to expand...
How can he be a better candidate for the title while arguably being worse unless he is actually a better ODI all rounder? :laugh:
 
jimmy101

jimmy101

Cricketer Of The Year
Wow, Freddy made it to the semis!

Kapil
Watson

I really, really don't want Shane Watson to win this :(
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Think harsh and stphn have made the points I would. To me, Kallis is easily better as an ODI AR because he is a MUCH better bowler and a better all round batsman. Symonds is a great fielder and a better hitter but you guys are ridiculously under rating the difficulties that ODI cricket can throw up, esp. in the 90s, if you think being a #7 biffer is what it takes to qualify as an AR. And as others have pointed out, it seems a fairly futile exercise to keep discussing when both sides seem rather trenched in their views. Kallis won the poll, deal with it. :p
 
StephenZA

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Red Hill said:
Symonds is among the elite of the batsmen who batted at 5/6. Kallis isn't among the elite top order batsmen. That's easy to understand.
Click to expand...
I am fully aware we are talking about ODI batting.... I think that the top order positions in ODI`s tends to be more important overall than lower order batting positions, which tend to be filled with big hitters in ODI cricket. But that is a matter of opinion and every player has their jobs.

I personally think that Kallis did his job extremely well, and was the central lynch-pin around which the SA batting order was built. I think his SR would be considerably higher if he had more batting freedom..... I think Kallis was an overall better player in both batting and bowling. You don`t. I don't think we are going to change each others opinions but hopefully we can see each others points of view.
 
NUFAN

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
I think many Aussies who predominately watched Kallis vs Australia would have Chappell's 'Kallis bats in a bubble' on their mind. I voted Symonds because I feel as though his inclusion took our team to another level. In 2003 we didn't quite have the right balance and were thinking about picking Blewett in that all rounder role. Symonds in the field was brilliant and I think he was an intelligent One day performer. You don't really associate Roy with intelligence but his running between wickets and his use of angles with bat, ball and the field are a weird thing to bring up, but were terrific. While winning 2 world cups to none shouldn't make a difference, the fact that he was a star in one of the best teams ever doesn't make me think it is odd at all that people would vote for him.
 
viriya

viriya

International Captain
Kapil Dev vs Lance Klusener
Andrew Flintoff vs Shane Watson

No idea why people are picking Watson over Flintoff in droves.. Watson was the better bat but Flintoff was a much better bowler.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Top