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***Official*** Australia in New Zealand 2016

Top_Cat

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This thread has nothing on the absolute garbage that occurred during the Sydney Test in '08. Not even in the same stadium.

The gap is big, it's wide. It's massive. And yeah, poor preparation, planning and coaching are part of it. I'm no fan of the (ex) bowling coach either, and I see little in the batting stakes at Test level to suggest anything is being remedied there either (at Test level). I don't like the softness in Latham after an hour or so, I don't like how piss weak Southee is, I want Anderson to be better as a Test player or find an alternative - maybe that will be different under a new captain who plays a different way. Unsure.

Losing the tosses wasn't ideal and maybe - only really maybe - we could've competed if we'd won them. But as someone said, Australia made the ball talk in conducive conditions and on flat wickets, we didn't do either. And they scored runs when it was flat, we didn't. 2-0 seems pretty fair to me based on that. The only one we probably deserved was Adelaide. So it's 4-1 at best on merit.

There's some pretty big assignments to come with SA and India away, so I hope there's a plan from up high to get it right.
Yeah this all over. The teams were never that close. Tense first half-hour ahead, though.

Has all the hallmarks of an acrimonious day. Small total, grumpy Aussies, defensive Kiwis, a member from the family Broad, cats and dogs living together, MASS HYSTERIA.
 
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The Hutt Rec

International Vice-Captain
Since when was the workplace private? The workplace isn't meant to be private. Your private life is private.
It's a bizzare comparison anyway. I think in the majority of workplaces if you came at your superior with that angry intimidation saying that sort of stuff you'd be in a fair bit of hot water.

In other news, the Australian team high horse from the Mitch Marsh caught and bowled has been taken out the back and put down.
 

Crazy Sam

International 12th Man
Hopefully given all this reaction to the recent series' between us and Australia, we'll be seen as a very enticing prospect to play Boxing Day at the G and get a lot more fixtures across the board in the future
If this thread is any indication of the reaction I'll be glad if Australia never plays NZ again.


Can I just add - Smith's reaction to the DRS call was every bit as embarrassing as some of Watson's reactions to wickets off his own bowling over the years. Smith is already awkward enough and only comes off looking petulant when he reacts like that when things don't go his way on the field.
 
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Spark

Global Moderator
This thread has nothing on the absolute garbage that occurred during the Sydney Test in '08. Not even in the same stadium.



Yeah this all over. The teams were never that close. Tense first half-hour ahead, though.
To be honest it isn't even England/India 2011, especially that 2nd Test.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Sure, I mean I wouldn't want you guys to forget that 6 months ago you got tore apart in conditions that didn't suit you by a bowler who took 8 for 15 against you... Because Australia #1!!!

English passport means I enjoyed that equally as I've enjoyed Wagner bombing out your batsmen in this match too.
What now?
 

Jord

U19 Vice-Captain
The gap is big, it's wide. It's massive. And yeah, poor preparation, planning and coaching are part of it. I'm no fan of the (ex) bowling coach either, and I see little in the batting stakes at Test level to suggest anything is being remedied there either (at Test level). I don't like the softness in Latham after an hour or so, I don't like how piss weak Southee is, I want Anderson to be better as a Test player or find an alternative - maybe that will be different under a new captain who plays a different way. Unsure.

Losing the tosses wasn't ideal and maybe - only really maybe - we could've competed if we'd won them. But as someone said, Australia made the ball talk in conducive conditions and on flat wickets, we didn't do either. And they scored runs when it was flat, we didn't. 2-0 seems pretty fair to me based on that. The only one we probably deserved was Adelaide. So it's 4-1 at best on merit.

There's some pretty big assignments to come with SA and India away, so I hope there's a plan from up high to get it right.
Great points, but I still think Australia aren't as strong as we've made them seem here and that it's really been the mistakes that we've made, the conditions of the matches and the frustration that our batting can't stick in on good wickets and make it count. Australia aren't that far removed from losing to an English side that had seemed like they were on the slip. It's also not that far ago that they couldn't compete against Pakistan in the UAE. I'd not be surprised if they lose again to South Africa at home and depending on which version of Pakistan turns up when they host them next year, that'll be interesting too.

The real disappointing thing is that NZ Cricket shoots itself in the foot too frequently

http://icc-live.s3.amazonaws.com/cm...f Copy of FTP 2015 to 2019 as at Nov 2014.pdf

We were supposed to have two tests against Zimbabwe before we played South Africa, which would've given us preparation and breathing room before coming out of our winter to face one of the strongest sides in the world. We've again placed our host test series at a time that our domestic first class scene isn't even started, and we've sandwiched some T20 and ODI series in between the test series. It's not the way in which you build a strong test unit.

Boult and Southee now have six months to go away and work out WTF went wrong.
 

Jord

U19 Vice-Captain
International Cricket though,

India won't beat anyone in the Top 6 away from home, but will beat them all at home.
South Africa seem to like touring more than playing at home
England require mercurial brilliance from Broad which only tends to happen at home.
Australia have a solid batting trunk and if they could get all their bowlers fit at the same time, an amazingly good bowling unit but can't play for crap in seaming/swinging conditions which means they'll struggle in England.
New Zealand are tough to beat at home based on their batting unit which until this series performed reasonably well and their bowling unit that before this year looked to be up there with Broad and Anderson

Expect those five sides to swap victories, placings and points with the caveat that much like the All Blacks psyche out the Wallabies in Rugby, the petulant little Baggy Green wearers seem to psyche our guys out in Test Cricket so we never really perform to our potential against them.
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah, David White isn't what we need at the top, I don't think any of us doubt that. His greatest asset seems to be that he's not Justin Vaughan. He might have a pretty reasonable handle on numbers and be able to organise that side of the business reasonably well, but in terms of an influential figure to completely reform us as an organisation and have a clear plan to how the future looks, he ain't it. So we'll probably have to accept where we are as a Test nation at least.

Southee has talked in the past about how he wants to be seen as a great, get his numbers under 30 bowling-wise etc. He had that great run of three years under Donald and Bond, and now the onus is on him. Must be coming up 30 so there's no reason he can't be in control of his own destiny and truly prove he is world class. That goes for his batting too, time to stop being a soft **** and contribute to the team in every situation. I've got no problems with Trent, he appears to me to be a much more driven individual.

Maybe Australia have been made to look better than they are, and I'd say that only in a batting sense. Unfortunately we didn't provide quality pace bowling through movement, speed or anything else for any length of time, nor quality of spin. In benign conditions, their batsmen are truly world class. Maybe those conditions will be found in SA and Pakistan, unsure. That's what undid them in England and in the UAE v spin/reverse.

I truly believe that their bowling stocks are flush and they're a world-class unit. Huge raps on Hazelwood, Pattinson provides a hell of a lot, Starc is to come back in, and I know you don't agree but I think Nathan Lyon is outstanding in his control and guile of his craft.
 

Jord

U19 Vice-Captain
Yeah, David White isn't what we need at the top, I don't think any of us doubt that. His greatest asset seems to be that he's not Justin Vaughan. He might have a pretty reasonable handle on numbers and be able to organise that side of the business reasonably well, but in terms of an influential figure to completely reform us as an organisation and have a clear plan to how the future looks, he ain't it. So we'll probably have to accept where we are as a Test nation at least.

Southee has talked in the past about how he wants to be seen as a great, get his numbers under 30 bowling-wise etc. He had that great run of three years under Donald and Bond, and now the onus is on him. Must be coming up 30 so there's no reason he can't be in control of his own destiny and truly prove he is world class. That goes for his batting too, time to stop being a soft **** and contribute to the team in every situation. I've got no problems with Trent, he appears to me to be a much more driven individual.

Maybe Australia have been made to look better than they are, and I'd say that only in a batting sense. Unfortunately we didn't provide quality pace bowling through movement, speed or anything else for any length of time, nor quality of spin. In benign conditions, their batsmen are truly world class. Maybe those conditions will be found in SA and Pakistan, unsure. That's what undid them in England and in the UAE v spin/reverse.

I truly believe that their bowling stocks are flush and they're a world-class unit. Huge raps on Hazelwood, Pattinson provides a hell of a lot, Starc is to come back in, and I know you don't agree but I think Nathan Lyon is outstanding in his control and guile of his craft.
Can we poach Michael Vaughan from England to be our CEO? I think he has all of the right ideas and would take us back to basics which to be honest, is what Lehmann has done reasonably well for Australia too. I also like that under Lehmann, Australia have been more than happy to go back to the old seasoned pro and they've got a lot out of doing it. I think NZ can learn from that.

Lyon definitely has great control and I've pointed that out in what I've said, but review every wicket he's taken this summer in Aussie and NZ and you'll see a theme of batsmen playing absolute muppet shots against him and gifting their wicket away. He didn't earn 9 out of the 10 wickets he took in NZ. Anyone who argues that needs to go back and review how woeful the batting was that gave him those wickets.

Siddle and Patto have been great, Hazlewood has had a few gifts, Bird has been extremely poor until yesterday.
 

Top_Cat

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On the conditions that fill the pants of the Aussies, firmly believe it's the combination of movement plus the ball not coming on in England as opposed to movement alone.
 

Jord

U19 Vice-Captain
Allan Border being refreshingly honest "Those tosses are in the back of my mind as something that probably changed the game"
 

Jord

U19 Vice-Captain
On chat conditions fill the pants of the Aussies, firmly believe it's the combination of movement plus the ball not coming on in England as opposed to movement alone.
Australian's have never been good against good swing or seam bowling, go review the World Cup when the ball moved around at Eden Park, or when Bond used to rip your team apart, or when Bracewell was getting it to dance off the wicket in Hobart. Australia for years relies on flat roads that offer good bounce and lift, which helps them with their 6'6+ bowlers who all bowl 140-145KPH plus. Fair credit to them, they win doing it, but they've already shown when conditions aren't favorable to them, they get beaten pretty badly.
 

thierry henry

International Coach
NZ fans who now seem to be resigned to there being a "big gap" between NZ and Aus- are you saying that you always believed this (say 12 months ago, 24 months ago), or are you saying this on the evidence of what you've seen this summer?

Would you be saying the same if we had Taylor in the side and peak Boult/Southee and the 2014/15 versions of Khawaja, Voges and Burns (or your perceptions of them then)?

Not sure if people are revising their opinions and pretending they never talked NZ up/talked unproven Aussie players down, or if they are simply accepting that they were wrong about certain players and that Aussie are better than they thought/we are worse.
 

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