New Zealand doom and gloom thread

[Jord]

If I try really really really really (never seen 4 really's used in a row before) hard to see it from their point of view then I can make the following comments:

1) Henry extracted more seam movement. And the reason he did this is that he is imparting a different type of spin when he releases the ball than Southee does. Tim is looking for swing and not seam. Henry is trying for seam and hence gets more of it. Sometimes Henry did a ball on the 8th channel line and seamed away. It was never going to take a wicket because it was so wide but it looked promising because there was movement.

2) Tim seemed to have bemusing strategies at times. He would beat the bat and then follow up with nothing deliveries for the rest of the over or sometimes even grow impatient and try something different to what was working for him.
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Tim drifted into the leg stump too often and was too easily picked off, but Henry bowled a length that really made it easy for the Australians to either attack or leave him for most of the day. He never really got over that length. Tim at least threatened the stumps on occasion.

 

[Hurricane]

Tim drifted into the leg stump too often and was too easily picked off, but Henry bowled a length that really made it easy for the Australians to either attack or leave him for most of the day. He never really got over that length. Tim at least threatened the stumps on occasion.

AWTA

Henry looked like a plunket bowler in a test match.

I hope overnight he agrees to bowl bouncers non stop like Wagner

 

[Zinzan]

I don't think Southee bowled that badly in Australia but have been disappointed with his efforts in NZ. Sure there hasn't been the swing he really relies on but he's lost the ability to work away in the channel.

Lack of swing aside, it's been his completely inability to bowl a string of accurate deliveries consecutively, without trying too much early on and straying onto the legs.

Either struggling with accuracy or is trying for the magic ball too early in a spell to keep any pressure on.

I surprised McCullum didn't do what Martin did to Ponting a few years back, packing the off-side field and patiently staying just outside off-stump & eventually boring him out edged behind... one of my favourite test wickets.

 

[Jord]

I'd really love to see Wagner develop a good full slower ball like Cairns had... as that would make him extremely awesome to watch.

 

[Bahnz]

Tim drifted into the leg stump too often and was too easily picked off, but Henry bowled a length that really made it easy for the Australians to either attack or leave him for most of the day. He never really got over that length. Tim at least threatened the stumps on occasion.

Looking at cricinfo's match centre is pretty interesting, though it sorta disagrees with your summary in part.

Basically, Southee did bowl a slightly fuller length than Henry on average, but not by much. 32% of Henry's deliveries to right handers were short of a good length, but the same was true for 27% of Southee's.

Southee was better at consistently hitting a good length. More than 60% of his balls were on a good length. However, Henry's line was much better than Southee's. 58% of Henry's balls were on the line of off-stump, compared to just 50% for Southee.

So in sum, Henry maintained an exacting line but was too inconsistent with his length to build pressure. Southee hit a pretty good length, but too often bowled too wide or straight to build pressure.

 

[Jord]

The day where I can honestly believe the Cricinfo ball tracking summary is the day I convert to Islam.

 

[Jezroy]

I hope this means they realise finally that Wagner is a lock in for a fast bowling spot in the team. He's a great point of difference and seems to be great at getting wickets when no one else is (bar Burns and Smith - even though he did seem remarkably under bowled for a while in the innings).

As for Southee and Boult, yeah not sure what's up there. Would have to think it's injury related. Boult seems to take a few steps forward every now and again, but still not quite getting there. The ball to get Warner for example was good, but then he'll go for long periods being as inconsistent as Mark Craig. And I didn't expect Southee to bowl worse than he did on Aussie (which wasn't bad, but not great), but he definitely is.

Guptill - I think it may be time to say to him "you're struggling mate. If you want to play, you need to try the number 5 thing. Look at Astle. Look at McCullum. Open in ODI's. bat 5 in tests". Problem is he's never been great against spin. Troublesome for number 5 (mind you McCullum not great against spin either). He must be a really good team man, if he wouldn't have got the persaverance he has.

Can't wait for Tom Laythem to turn this "I got a start" corner. I remember at one point my brother went through a phrase of saying Stephen "30 is enough" Fleming, due to his inability to go on. Latham is doing similar. Getting in, looking okay (normally), and getting out. Sucks mate.

Williamson - fighting well in this test considering he's looked out of sorts (for him). Be very interesting to see if/how captaincy affects him. And also the pressure of being our best batsman. I wonder if that gets to him.

Ross - I miss you big guy. I hope that Captain Kane and an increased role in the leadership group is good for him. Loosens him up again. I know he just got 290, but I wish he'd said to those flash Harry fast bowlers "stop batting like dicks guys, I could get 300". Not sure he did, and I wonder if that's partly where he sees himself within the team.

That's enough for now

 

[Jord]

Wagner didn't get a bowl at any batsman really until they were well set, as any time a wicket fell McCullum went back to his prized horses. It wasn't until the final spell where he was given a chance to bowl at new players and he was able to do the damage that should have seen us back into this match until brainless batting cast us out again.

He really didn't even have a crack at Smith or Burns until they were set.

 

[Zinzan]

Looking at cricinfo's match centre is pretty interesting, though it sorta disagrees with your summary in part.

Basically, Southee did bowl a slightly fuller length than Henry on average, but not by much. 32% of Henry's deliveries to right handers were short of a good length, but the same was true for 27% of Southee's.

Southee was better at consistently hitting a good length. More than 60% of his balls were on a good length. However, Henry's line was much better than Southee's. 58% of Henry's balls were on the line of off-stump, compared to just 50% for Southee.

So in sum, Henry maintained an exacting line but was too inconsistent with his length to build pressure. Southee hit a pretty good length, but too often bowled too wide or straight to build pressure.

The day where I can honestly believe the Cricinfo ball tracking summary is the day I convert to Islam.

There's not necessarily any reason to question that data per se except you do need to analyse it in context. It's much more criminal to waste a brand new ball than an old one. Not saying the analysis would be any different if we looked at the new-ball spells, but context is important here.

 

[Bahnz]

Wagner didn't get a bowl at any batsman really until they were well set, as any time a wicket fell McCullum went back to his prized horses. It wasn't until the final spell where he was given a chance to bowl at new players and he was able to do the damage that should have seen us back into this match until brainless batting cast us out again.

He really didn't even have a crack at Smith or Burns until they were set.

Agree in general, Baz seemed worried about bringing Wagner on - probably thinking about Wagner's past sins scuffing up the new ball, but nonetheless he should've been brought on sooner than he was. He had a good crack at Lyon and Voges without success. Could've been tried for longer I guess, but was starting to look a bit tired at the end of that first spell.

 

[Jord]

I used to often have the match centre open on one screen and the cricket open on the other as I watch all of my cricket via web *********. I'd often be amazed at what Cricinfo would say the ball was doing versus what the ball actually did.

 

[Jord]

Agree in general, Baz seemed worried about bringing Wagner on - probably thinking about Wagner's past sins scuffing up the new ball, but nonetheless he should've been brought on sooner than he was. He had a good crack at Lyon and Voges without success. Could've been tried for longer I guess, but was starting to look a bit tired at the end of that first spell.

tbh considering how lifeless the ball was anyway, maybe getting Wagner in early might have helped assist getting reverse swing.

 

[Immenso]

I'm wondering whether this has been the most disappointing 12 months for the blackcaps in my 30 odd years watching? Yes, we've had far worse years and far worse team but I don't think I've seen a team plummet so far and underperform so much as this one.

I think the seeds were sown in Sharjah, but it wasn't until the end of the World Cup and the tour of England until I began to suspect how bad their mental game had gotten.

I thought the decline of this team may start from about now, and that this last year would be a golden opportunity to show their stuff before Baz retired and Ross began to fade and while the rest of the team should be at their peak.

This needs to be weighed against the fact that their opposition for much of this 12 month, Aus and Eng, have been on the rise while we have been on the decline, but still, it's been woeful.

Poor way for Baz to bow out, but this team definitely needs some new leadership anyway. I hope Kane is strong enough, but on the plus side Tim surely has no remaining credit for anymore undermining.

 

[Immenso]

^^ btw. That's not really doom and gloom, as it's not like the 90s where there was simply no cattle and no light at the end of the tunnel. It's more 'what could have been, bugger, hope the next guy can turn it around as there's still plenty to work with'.

 

[hendrix]

Milne was so bad in the ODI series and so easy for the Australians and Pakistanis to handle

huh? Thought he was generally pretty good and wasn't handled with ease at all. Didn't set the world alight, sure, but above par for mine.

 

[straw man]

Four pages of doom and gloom - top work.

This summer has been really weird. If it were only Southee that wasn't swinging the ball then you would think it's time to bench him, but none of the bowlers have really got the ball swinging frequently through the season.

Southee looked better in Australia than he did in NZ. Boult looked bad in both series. We don't play any test cricket for the rest of the season so dropping them probably isn't an option in the off season.

Agree. I thought Southee was ok in Australia but fell away when it mattered in Adelaide while Boult was the inverse, only performing once in the series in Adelaide. Boult has been a fair bit better than Southee this series imo and I feel like Boult is on the path back upwards (for starters, his pace is up again, and his seam release looks reasonable to me, it just wasn't swinging), but I do not have the same confidence with Southee.

Yes to a Milne type player
No to Adam as he bowls a light ball.

He is a 150Ks bowler than hits the bat like 125ks.

Some truth but this was also said about Starc, described as 'the floatiest 150km/h you'll ever see'. When you're that quick a few minor changes can make a huge difference.

Not saying that Milne isn't worth a go at some point, but he really needs to dominate a season of FC cricket (or at the very least an NZA tour) first.

You just need to belieeeeve hard enough. Needs to be available for CD during the Plunket Shield first.

The absence of swing has of course been very noticeable. A big part of it is the blazing hot weather this summer. We really need the world to get it's **** together on climate change or our home advantage is going to evaporate along with most of the 3rd world's fresh water supplies.

I mean if this doesn't get the world to act on climate change, nothing will.

Tim drifted into the leg stump too often and was too easily picked off

This has infuriated me about Southee's bowling lately. The way Southee's bowling at the moment is reminiscent of Doug Bracewell, in that he just needs to be so accurate and he's not.

but Henry bowled a length that really made it easy for the Australians to either attack or leave him for most of the day. He never really got over that length.

Re: the NZ bowlers' length, I find it hard to believe the coaches aren't constantly looking at that and talking to the bowlers about it. Henry is bowling more of a new-ball ODI length. He probably does find that more natural with his action and often overpitches if he tries to go fuller, but needs to find a way.

Ross - I miss you big guy. I hope that Captain Kane and an increased role in the leadership group is good for him. Loosens him up again. I know he just got 290, but I wish he'd said to those flash Harry fast bowlers "stop batting like dicks guys, I could get 300". Not sure he did, and I wonder if that's partly where he sees himself within the team.

Yeah it's in the past but it still amazes me the way the tail batted there. Was so poor.

 

[Flem274*]

this milne can't bowl to the tail meme needs to die. his ability to deal with engine room dirty sloggers and tailenders in the 12 months leading to and including the world cup is what got him in the first eleven.

his career statistics on face value mean nothing considering he played a significant chunk of his odis as a pretty poor teenager who happened to bowl 150kph. he made his international debut at 17 ffs.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

I'm wondering whether this has been the most disappointing 12 months for the blackcaps in my 30 odd years watching? Yes, we've had far worse years and far worse team but I don't think I've seen a team plummet so far and underperform so much as this one.

I think the seeds were sown in Sharjah, but it wasn't until the end of the World Cup and the tour of England until I began to suspect how bad their mental game had gotten.

I thought the decline of this team may start from about now, and that this last year would be a golden opportunity to show their stuff before Baz retired and Ross began to fade and while the rest of the team should be at their peak.

This needs to be weighed against the fact that their opposition for much of this 12 month, Aus and Eng, have been on the rise while we have been on the decline, but still, it's been woeful.

Poor way for Baz to bow out, but this team definitely needs some new leadership anyway. I hope Kane is strong enough, but on the plus side Tim surely has no remaining credit for anymore undermining.

I think the stupid dismissals in the first test against England when a draw was within touching distance was the start of the rot for me.

It's funny, as much as I've enjoyed McCullum's final few years and will be sad to see him go - I'm looking forward to it. The side desperately needs an overhaul in so many ways. Attitude in certain areas, gameplans, tactics, simple technical flaws ... dare I say it, captaincy.

The real disappointment for me this season is that the side has been riding a wave of public support, and our poor performances in tests vs Aus home and away haven't helped that. I can barely remember the last time a single day of test cricket being sold out at the Basin, let alone the first three days! Felt sorry for the people who bought the tickets in the end, watching that listless performance. We need an injection of grit and common sense.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

It's funny, as much as I've enjoyed McCullum's final few years and will be sad to see him go - I'm looking forward to it. The side desperately needs an overhaul in so many ways. Attitude in certain areas, gameplans, tactics, simple technical flaws ... dare I say it, captaincy.

I'm generally more optimistic about the BCs than most other Kiwi posters here and so do not post much on this thread. But I do think this point is interesting. McCullum's game is so good for the shorter forms that it's sometimes easy to overlook that it isn't very well suited to Tests. SR is not important in Tests, and SR was the best thing McCullum had to offer in limited overs cricket.

KW will be a very different captain. He plays the percentages and is not a gambler.

McCullum was necessary for us to get to this position. But getting to No. 1 will require a different approach to what we have used recently. Australia hardly ever take risks, they just play percentages and no-one can beat them on it. With a KW captaincy we will play percentages.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I can barely remember the last time a single day of test cricket being sold out at the Basin, let alone the first three days!

Pretty sure the first 3 days were sold out against England and India. At least two of them were.

The Basin always gets good turn outs for the 'good' games. Poor showings for Sri Lanka, West Indies and Bangladesh though.