***Official*** Australia in New Zealand 2016

[Jord]

I'd like to see a detail ball by ball report on those games as well like the one above

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Off you go.

 

[Gob]

ugh the postings start out so reasonable and then as soon as anyone disagrees on any point it's super defensive mode

Hey i'm not defensive. He changed my mind a bit with that detailed ball by ball report and what i want now is a full ball by ball report on the rest of his 185 wickets and then i'll be fully convinced for sure. Can you do that jord?

 

[GotSpin]

I hate to say this, but Marsh needs to step up with the bat tomorrow. Anything less than a 150 run lead should be grounds for disappointment. Smith and Burns did too much work for the lower order to chip a drive to extra- cover or something.

 

[Furball]

Swann is comfortably ahead of Lyon imo. Swan could turn it as much but was much quicker through the air hence more difficult to play.

Cant believe how under rated Swann is getting these days. Was a big part in winning a series in India, bowled England to a series leveling win in Sri Lanka and was again good in UAE. His record is not great in Australia and South Africa which i admit are two very difficult places to ball offspin but still he delivered the goods when required like in Adelaide unlike say Ashwin. Also IIRC Swann was regarded as probably the 2nd best bowler behind Steyn for a while in the early 10's.

Lyon has a long way to go before being consider as good forget being superior. He has to start delivering in the conditions that are actually good for spin bowling for a start and he can start doing that in SL

Swann won man of the series in the only series he played in South Africa.

 

[Gob]

I hate to say this, but Marsh needs to step up with the bat tomorrow. Anything less than a 150 run lead should be grounds for disappointment. Smith and Burns did too much work for the lower order to chip a drive to extra- cover or something.

Voges/Neville partnership would be the crucial one imo.

Swann won man of the series in the only series he played in South Africa.

That's even better

 

[The Battlers Prince]

So bad. Wicket taking balls aren't delivered in their own special universe which ignores the flow of the match, the over, the build up and a myriad of other factors.

Good point, because that doesn't change the fact that the wickets stated didn't still come from slog shots and heaves etc. which was the point I believe.

 

[Furball]

Here is an example, all wickets taken by Lyon in this series

39.4 this time, his attempt to hit against the turn, results in his wicket. Caught at mid-off. Such a soft dismissal. Inches forward, then presses further to try and get close enough to the ball. He does not manage to do so. Should have checked his shot, instead still goes for the flick and tosses immensely patient, painstaking, promising knock into the Wellington wind 137/8

41.1 well, he does try. Clever bowling from Lyon. He knows Southee has a habit of not holding back and gives this a ridiculous amount of air. The tailender goes for the lash over long-off. ends up with an outside edge that settles in Hazlewood's hands at point 137/9

47.6 well done, Khawaja! Excellent presence of mind under pressure. He was moving around to the left, had to leap up and take the ball in front of his face, then he comes down and lands right on the edge of the boundary rope. Pops the ball up as he pops out of the boundary, then comes back in to seal the deal. The Basin crowd were baying for that to be six, and booed when the correct decision was made after much delieberation. It was close, but not that close. 183/10

51.2 leading edge and Khawaja running around at mid-off takes a fine catch. Latham's gone. Ran down the pitch, but then realises Lyon's beaten him for the lack of flight. He had set up to slog into the leg side, then checks his shot but it doesn't help him. 157/3

21.2 brilliant work from Marsh and immensely gutsy bowling from Nathan! Thew the ball up over Guptill's eyeline to make him go for the big one. Goes for a wild slog, but there isn't as much room for the shot. He was deceived by the extra flight. Top edges straight up, it swirls around and Marsh runs, looking over his shoulder and makes a dive to hold it with both hands. Great work all around 81/1

77.2 he has this knack, whether the batsman is trying to defend or attack, he gets through them with simple, unassuming deliveries. At least that's what they think initially. Watling went back thinking he had a cut or a punch through the off side. But Lyon had tossed it up, drifts it away to tempt the batsman into improper decision making. Watling tries to adjust with the ball turns quite a bit after pitching. Still only offeres an angled bat, takes the inside edge and thuds into the stumps 214/6

99.5 oh, it was always too good to last. Lyon has a fourth as he kept tossing the ball up, this time did so a little wider outside off. Southee, with his preference for leg-side play, tries to drag it. Mis-hit straight to Khawaja at long-on. Might just have been the fastest fifty by a NZ batsman in Tests had he held on a little longer 301/9

48.5 Anderson has been hitting sweetly back over Anderson's head, but this time he perishes trying to do just that. Lyon has smartly dragged this wider. Anderson is out of his crease so he has to go ahead with the shot. He fails to drag it, and lobs i straight up for cover to take the catch. An excellent hand from Anderson. On another day a great lead effort. Today a support act 266/6

50.2 and this thrill-a-minute Test continues to thrill. Australia fighting their way back. Southee looks to give Lyon the charge, but hardly gets any power or elevation. An easy catch at mid-off results. Just not to the pitch of the ball as Lyon slows it down seeing Southee advance 273/7

54.3 nearly dropped by Khawaja. The entertainment continues, though. Henry gives him the charge, Lyon continues to keep flighting the ball, Henry goes for the big hit, mis-hits it towards long-on, where Khawaja nearly lets the ball slip out. He collects it on the second grab 297/8

10 wickets, 10 batsmen mistakes, 9 of which were dirty heave slogs that got caught in the outfield, one being a batsman going back to cut a full delivery. It wasn't much of a different story of him against the Windies, or against NZ in Aus

tl;dr

 

[Shady Slim]

tl;dr

"my opinion is wrong"

 

[Jord]

Good point, because that doesn't change the fact that the wickets stated didn't still come from slog shots and heaves etc. which was the point I believe.

Yup; and apparently posting things that back up your opinion is frowned upon too. You shouldn't actually make a point with evidence because ultimately tl;dr

Lyon doesn't give easy runs away, he doesn't bowl the rubbish balls to release pressure but he also doesn't bowl rippers either. He relies on batting error which a lot of spin bowlers do, he just seems to have a bit of Wagner about him in the sense that he gets a lot of dismissals through batting error. I don't see how that's a bad thing to point out.

If actually people think he is the GOAT off spinner then I've got a magical bean to sell you.

 

[GotSpin]

Good point, because that doesn't change the fact that the wickets stated didn't still come from slog shots and heaves etc. which was the point I believe.

Inducing errors shouldn't detract from the quality of a wicket. The fact that Lyon is still willing to give the ball some flight and so forth should count towards him, not against

 

[hendrix]

Hey i'm not defensive. He changed my mind a bit with that detailed ball by ball report and what i want now is a full ball by ball report on the rest of his 185 wickets and then i'll be fully convinced for sure. Can you do that jord?

I was talking about Jord

 

[Shady Slim]

the thing to note it lyon doesn't chuck it, get exactly no turn and have it mis-hit to long on

he's a very good traditional spinner in more the herath mould than the ajmal mould in that he uses traditional tricks to deceive the batsman

 

[Gob]

Yup; and apparently posting things that back up your opinion is frowned upon too. You shouldn't actually make a point with evidence because ultimately tl;dr

Lyon doesn't give easy runs away, he doesn't bowl the rubbish balls to release pressure but he also doesn't bowl rippers either. He relies on batting error which a lot of spin bowlers do, he just seems to have a bit of Wagner about him in the sense that he gets a lot of dismissals through batting error. I don't see how that's a bad thing to point out.

If actually people think he is the GOAT off spinner then I've got a magical bean to sell you.

You really need to know stuff. GOAT reference is used as the greatest Aust off spinner

btw aren't all dismissals a batting error of some form? I'd like to know what you think of a caught behind induced by a cut shot due to extra bounce and a short leg catch while batsman defending the ball again due to extra bounce?

 

[Gob]

the thing to note it lyon doesn't chuck it, get exactly no turn and have it mis-hit to long on

he's a very good traditional spinner in more the herath mould than the ajmal mould in that he uses traditional tricks to deceive the batsman

yeah right. Try wearing glasses

 

[Shady Slim]

yeah right. Try wearing glasses

i request you reread that because i'm agreeing with you

please note the doesn't

 

[Jord]

You really need to know stuff. GOAT reference is used as the greatest Aust off spinner

btw aren't all dismissals a batting error of some form? I'd like to know what you think of a caught behind induced by a cut shot due to extra bounce and a short leg catch while batsman defending the ball again due to extra bounce?

I really can't be bothered being drawn into an argument between someone charging down the wicket, having a massive hoik in the air and being dismissed, versus someone being drawn into a shot and knicking off to first slip. Pointless. I've made my point, backed it up with evidence, apparently am defensive in doing so and I can't be bothered appealing to your egos further.

 

[Gob]

i request you reread that because i'm agreeing with you

please note the doesn't

ah my bad.

 

[indiaholic]

Jord, in the case of spinners ugly hoicks can some times be a result of being beaten in the flight and even then deciding to go through with the shot. Not saying this invalidates your point, but this can be a very legitimate skill that the bowler has..

 

[TheJediBrah]

the thing to note it lyon doesn't chuck it, get exactly no turn and have it mis-hit to long on

he's a very good traditional spinner in more the herath mould than the ajmal mould in that he uses traditional tricks to deceive the batsman

This in itself almost makes him unique in this day & age

 

[The Battlers Prince]

Inducing errors shouldn't detract from the quality of a wicket. The fact that Lyon is still willing to give the ball some flight and so forth should count towards him, not against

I think he needs to do well against some good batsmen of spin to show he can hold down an end or even take their wickets. I guess we'll see if he's up to it