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***Official*** Australia in New Zealand 2016

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
Can we criticise Baz and Anderson yet for their poor dismissals when they had them on the ropes? NZ about a 100 short in that first innings. I guess if you enjoy the manner the runs were compiled then you can't criticise the dismissals. Still, it's the difference between fun entertainers and hard/ adaptable test cricketers.
 

Gob

International Coach
Can we criticise Baz and Anderson yet for their poor dismissals when they had them on the ropes? NZ about a 100 short in that first innings. I guess if you enjoy the manner the runs were compiled then you can't criticise the dismissals. Still, it's the difference between fun entertainers and hard/ adaptable test cricketers.
Don't think either would've survived playing with a straight bat
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Kane toured SA on that horrific tour, before he started hitting his straps Will be very interesting to see how he goes on that tour, assuming he'll be captain as well. Kinda funny, that Baz made his captaincy debut there and so will Kane (again, assuming he's the successor). But having a century in each country at age 25/26 would be pretty cool.
 

Gob

International Coach
Smith has achieved more so far, but Williamson is a gun, of that there cannot be any realistic question
I live to see Smith scoring and Williamson failing but yeah both are quality and along with r00t its going to be a three horse race for years to come
 

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
Don't think either would've survived playing with a straight bat
Not at 30/3 no, it was an awesome counter attack, but at 250/5 and 5 men on the boundary .....and hitting a leg side half volley down one of their throats? Does adaptable come into it at any stage? When does a counter attack turn into a something else. Aus were ragged then and they were let off the hook.
 

Jord

U19 Vice-Captain
Lyon is a bit like Graeme Swann in the sense that they both have their best innings when they're coming in post a demolition job being done by a dominant pace attack. He has a tendency to chip in with threes and fours mostly made up of people trying to hit him out of the attack and not giving him respect because they see him as a weak link in what is typically a strong Australian side, a lot of his wickets are just batsman slogging at him and mi****ting it. Swann tended to get players out and work them out more when he was at his best, with Lyon it's always actually quite surprising that he does take as many wickets as he does, because you have to say he's not really not that threatening to good players of spin.

It's hard to judge players like Vettori and to a lesser degree Harbhajan, because in many instances they weren't backed up by a strong pace bowling attack and often they had to be the viable wicket taking option while keeping runs down. If players had as little respect for Vettori as they seem to have for Lyon, I think he would've got far more wickets. Vettori suffered mostly because sides respected him too much to go after him.
 

Howsie

International Captain
Don't think either would've survived playing with a straight bat
Not to begin with, no. But they could of pulled it back as we got closer to tea. Can't blame McCullum much, he was never going to stop. But I was really dissapointed with how and when Anderson got out. Was so weak.
 

Gob

International Coach
Not at 30/3 no, it was an awesome counter attack, but at 250/5 and 5 men on the boundary .....and hitting a leg side half volley down one of their throats? Does adaptable come into it at any stage? When does a counter attack turn into a something else. Aus were ragged then and they were let off the hook.
The ball was still moving around though. And i also think that they wanted to get as many runs as possible as quickly as possible so they can have a crack at Aus while it was still offering something.
 

Jord

U19 Vice-Captain
Not at 30/3 no, it was an awesome counter attack, but at 250/5 and 5 men on the boundary .....and hitting a leg side half volley down one of their throats? Does adaptable come into it at any stage? When does a counter attack turn into a something else. Aus were ragged then and they were let off the hook.
I think you are completely underestimating how bad his back is and how much energy it takes for him to be at the crease at the moment. He's not going to be able to play the 300-400 ball knocks in the condition he's in. He was completely spent and you could see by how often he was wincing or stretching his back out that it was a matter of time before he'd chip out.

Anderson on the other hand, seeing what Watling was capable of, that was a missed opportunity.
 

Gob

International Coach
Lyon is a bit like Graeme Swann in the sense that they both have their best innings when they're coming in post a demolition job being done by a dominant pace attack. He has a tendency to chip in with threes and fours mostly made up of people trying to hit him out of the attack and not giving him respect because they see him as a weak link in what is typically a strong Australian side, a lot of his wickets are just batsman slogging at him and mi****ting it. Swann tended to get players out and work them out more when he was at his best, with Lyon it's always actually quite surprising that he does take as many wickets as he does, because you have to say he's not really not that threatening to good players of spin.

It's hard to judge players like Vettori and to a lesser degree Harbhajan, because in many instances they weren't backed up by a strong pace bowling attack and often they had to be the viable wicket taking option while keeping runs down. If players had as little respect for Vettori as they seem to have for Lyon, I think he would've got far more wickets. Vettori suffered mostly because sides respected him too much to go after him.
You must have been watching some totally different games to rest of us
 

Jord

U19 Vice-Captain
Feel free to post highlights where Lyon rips out peoples off polls bowling them back through the gate several times in a test match.

If you review the % of catches infront of the wicket per dismissal Lyon has versus Swann; you'll see what I mean. Swann got a lot more of his wickets LBW/Bowled/At Slip
 
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Gob

International Coach
banana stand going that poorly?
Nah just never liked him. I'd rather watch a paint dry than actually watch him bat

That being said, like some others, i don't let my personal grudges have any influence when rating him as one of the best in the world
 

Gob

International Coach
Feel free to post highlights where Lyon rips out peoples off polls bowling them back through the gate several times in a test match.

If you review the % of catches infront of the wicket per dismissal Lyon has versus Swann; you'll see what I mean. Swann got a lot more of his wickets LBW/Bowled/At Slip
So unless you are doing that all of your wickets must have come as dirty slogs. good
 

Jord

U19 Vice-Captain
So unless you are doing that all of your wickets must have come as dirty slogs. good
Here is an example, all wickets taken by Lyon in this series

39.4 this time, his attempt to hit against the turn, results in his wicket. Caught at mid-off. Such a soft dismissal. Inches forward, then presses further to try and get close enough to the ball. He does not manage to do so. Should have checked his shot, instead still goes for the flick and tosses immensely patient, painstaking, promising knock into the Wellington wind 137/8

41.1 well, he does try. Clever bowling from Lyon. He knows Southee has a habit of not holding back and gives this a ridiculous amount of air. The tailender goes for the lash over long-off. ends up with an outside edge that settles in Hazlewood's hands at point 137/9

47.6 well done, Khawaja! Excellent presence of mind under pressure. He was moving around to the left, had to leap up and take the ball in front of his face, then he comes down and lands right on the edge of the boundary rope. Pops the ball up as he pops out of the boundary, then comes back in to seal the deal. The Basin crowd were baying for that to be six, and booed when the correct decision was made after much delieberation. It was close, but not that close. 183/10

51.2 leading edge and Khawaja running around at mid-off takes a fine catch. Latham's gone. Ran down the pitch, but then realises Lyon's beaten him for the lack of flight. He had set up to slog into the leg side, then checks his shot but it doesn't help him. 157/3

21.2 brilliant work from Marsh and immensely gutsy bowling from Nathan! Thew the ball up over Guptill's eyeline to make him go for the big one. Goes for a wild slog, but there isn't as much room for the shot. He was deceived by the extra flight. Top edges straight up, it swirls around and Marsh runs, looking over his shoulder and makes a dive to hold it with both hands. Great work all around 81/1

77.2 he has this knack, whether the batsman is trying to defend or attack, he gets through them with simple, unassuming deliveries. At least that's what they think initially. Watling went back thinking he had a cut or a punch through the off side. But Lyon had tossed it up, drifts it away to tempt the batsman into improper decision making. Watling tries to adjust with the ball turns quite a bit after pitching. Still only offeres an angled bat, takes the inside edge and thuds into the stumps 214/6

99.5 oh, it was always too good to last. Lyon has a fourth as he kept tossing the ball up, this time did so a little wider outside off. Southee, with his preference for leg-side play, tries to drag it. Mis-hit straight to Khawaja at long-on. Might just have been the fastest fifty by a NZ batsman in Tests had he held on a little longer 301/9

48.5 Anderson has been hitting sweetly back over Anderson's head, but this time he perishes trying to do just that. Lyon has smartly dragged this wider. Anderson is out of his crease so he has to go ahead with the shot. He fails to drag it, and lobs i straight up for cover to take the catch. An excellent hand from Anderson. On another day a great lead effort. Today a support act 266/6

50.2 and this thrill-a-minute Test continues to thrill. Australia fighting their way back. Southee looks to give Lyon the charge, but hardly gets any power or elevation. An easy catch at mid-off results. Just not to the pitch of the ball as Lyon slows it down seeing Southee advance 273/7

54.3 nearly dropped by Khawaja. The entertainment continues, though. Henry gives him the charge, Lyon continues to keep flighting the ball, Henry goes for the big hit, mis-hits it towards long-on, where Khawaja nearly lets the ball slip out. He collects it on the second grab 297/8

10 wickets, 10 batsmen mistakes, 9 of which were dirty heave slogs that got caught in the outfield, one being a batsman going back to cut a full delivery. It wasn't much of a different story of him against the Windies, or against NZ in Aus
 

Gob

International Coach
Here is an example, all wickets taken by Lyon in this series

39.4 this time, his attempt to hit against the turn, results in his wicket. Caught at mid-off. Such a soft dismissal. Inches forward, then presses further to try and get close enough to the ball. He does not manage to do so. Should have checked his shot, instead still goes for the flick and tosses immensely patient, painstaking, promising knock into the Wellington wind 137/8

41.1 well, he does try. Clever bowling from Lyon. He knows Southee has a habit of not holding back and gives this a ridiculous amount of air. The tailender goes for the lash over long-off. ends up with an outside edge that settles in Hazlewood's hands at point 137/9

47.6 well done, Khawaja! Excellent presence of mind under pressure. He was moving around to the left, had to leap up and take the ball in front of his face, then he comes down and lands right on the edge of the boundary rope. Pops the ball up as he pops out of the boundary, then comes back in to seal the deal. The Basin crowd were baying for that to be six, and booed when the correct decision was made after much delieberation. It was close, but not that close. 183/10

51.2 leading edge and Khawaja running around at mid-off takes a fine catch. Latham's gone. Ran down the pitch, but then realises Lyon's beaten him for the lack of flight. He had set up to slog into the leg side, then checks his shot but it doesn't help him. 157/3

21.2 brilliant work from Marsh and immensely gutsy bowling from Nathan! Thew the ball up over Guptill's eyeline to make him go for the big one. Goes for a wild slog, but there isn't as much room for the shot. He was deceived by the extra flight. Top edges straight up, it swirls around and Marsh runs, looking over his shoulder and makes a dive to hold it with both hands. Great work all around 81/1

77.2 he has this knack, whether the batsman is trying to defend or attack, he gets through them with simple, unassuming deliveries. At least that's what they think initially. Watling went back thinking he had a cut or a punch through the off side. But Lyon had tossed it up, drifts it away to tempt the batsman into improper decision making. Watling tries to adjust with the ball turns quite a bit after pitching. Still only offeres an angled bat, takes the inside edge and thuds into the stumps 214/6

99.5 oh, it was always too good to last. Lyon has a fourth as he kept tossing the ball up, this time did so a little wider outside off. Southee, with his preference for leg-side play, tries to drag it. Mis-hit straight to Khawaja at long-on. Might just have been the fastest fifty by a NZ batsman in Tests had he held on a little longer 301/9

48.5 Anderson has been hitting sweetly back over Anderson's head, but this time he perishes trying to do just that. Lyon has smartly dragged this wider. Anderson is out of his crease so he has to go ahead with the shot. He fails to drag it, and lobs i straight up for cover to take the catch. An excellent hand from Anderson. On another day a great lead effort. Today a support act 266/6

50.2 and this thrill-a-minute Test continues to thrill. Australia fighting their way back. Southee looks to give Lyon the charge, but hardly gets any power or elevation. An easy catch at mid-off results. Just not to the pitch of the ball as Lyon slows it down seeing Southee advance 273/7

54.3 nearly dropped by Khawaja. The entertainment continues, though. Henry gives him the charge, Lyon continues to keep flighting the ball, Henry goes for the big hit, mis-hits it towards long-on, where Khawaja nearly lets the ball slip out. He collects it on the second grab 297/8

10 wickets, 10 batsmen mistakes, 9 of which were dirty heave slogs that got caught in the outfield, one being a batsman going back to cut a full delivery. It wasn't much of a different story of him against the Windies, or against NZ in Aus
I'd like to see a detail ball by ball report on those games as well like the one above
 
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hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
ugh the postings start out so reasonable and then as soon as anyone disagrees on any point it's super defensive mode
 

GotSpin

Hall of Fame Member
So bad. Wicket taking balls aren't delivered in their own special universe which ignores the flow of the match, the over, the build up and a myriad of other factors.
 
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