***Official*** England in South Africa 2015/16

[vcs]

There's been some utterly dire bowling by England in this game. Don't know if it's because they've struggled to grip the ball because of dew etc.

 

[StephenZA]

I can't tell if they pick Jordan because England's bowling depth is terrible, or because the selectors are terrible. Either way, it's really confusing me as to how good England's bowling stocks actually are.

Maybe for his fielding? The catch of ABD helped turn that game....

 

[Compton]

URGH.

An innings that good being ended by Chris ****ing Jordan.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Geez Amla, of all people getting out to a pie chucker.

 

[StephenZA]

Well done boys, good work..

 

[Stefan9]

Great batting display.

 

[Prince EWS]

I can't tell if they pick Jordan because England's bowling depth is terrible, or because the selectors are terrible. Either way, it's really confusing me as to how good England's bowling stocks actually are.

It's a combination of several factors really.

- He had a fluky good start to his ODI career so his overall record never looks as terrible as he actually is.
- He can bat and he can seriously field.
- They don't want to overburden Anderson or Broad so they tend not to play many ODIs, especially away from home. (Broad has sucked at them for a while too, but that's probably a bit of a separate issue given we're comparing him to Jordan).
- Finn and Wood are currently (and often) injured.
- After you rule out Anderson, Broad, Finn and Wood and recognise that Topley, Willey and Stokes are already in the side, you're down to the eighth choice quick. Having a crappy eighth choice quick isn't really unusual.
- The selectors are terrible. Seriously, even after all that it's still pretty nuts that he gets picked ahead of Woakes or Plunkett. I think I'd even recall Bresnan before I played Jordan.

 

[Stefan9]

There's been some utterly dire bowling by England in this game. Don't know if it's because they've struggled to grip the ball because of dew etc.

If there was dew it was minimal. Hardly saw anyone with a towel.

 

[Niall]

It's a combination of several factors really.

- He had a fluky good start to his ODI career so his overall record never looks as terrible as he actually is.
- He can bat and he can seriously field.
- They don't want to overburden Anderson or Broad so they tend not to play many ODIs, especially away from home. (Broad has sucked at them for a while too, but that's probably a bit of a separate issue given we're comparing him to Jordan).
- Finn and Wood are currently (and often) injured.
- After you rule out Anderson, Broad, Finn and Wood and recognise that Topley, Willey and Stokes are already in the side, you're down to the eighth choice quick. Having a crappy eighth choice quick isn't really unusual.
- The selectors are terrible. Seriously, even after all that it's still pretty nuts that he gets picked ahead of Woakes or Plunkett. I think I'd even recall Bresnan before I played Jordan.

I think this summer they have to experiment with at least one of Broad and Anderson. The Champions Trophy is in England next year and I refuse to believe that they are that many better bowlers in English conditions.

The good news is Pakistan and Sri Lanka will be bringing some very inexperienced test line ups and he will be coming off a long rest so he won't be shattered once the ODIS come around.

Jordan for all his batting heroics only averages 11 which is awful as many times he has had a chance to get in and score some runs.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Was this genuinely England's best available bowling attack? I could be wrong but seems that they went all out to get as many bowling all-rounders as possible instead of picking the genuinely best bowlers. You don't need Willey & Rashid at 9 and 10, but you need your best bowlers.

but I haven't been following that closely maybe they are England's best bowlers

 

[Groundking]

Was this genuinely England's best available bowling attack? I could be wrong but seems that they went all out to get as many bowling all-rounders as possible instead of picking the genuinely best bowlers. You don't need Willey & Rashid at 9 and 10, but you need your best bowlers.

but I haven't been following that closely maybe they are England's best bowlers

Outside of Woakes for Jordan, with Finn and Wood injured, and selectors unwilling to pick either Broad or Anderson due to the workload reasons (think back 2 and a bit years and how, relatively, poor they both were when they were bowling millions of overs).

Personally I'd get Broad in for Jordan for the next game, and if we win we can experiment a bit again in the final game, and I'd keep Willey in the team due to his ability with the bat plus he's a lefty with the ball, and options with the ball is one of the strongest aspects of this team.

I think Rashid's been pretty good so far.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Plunkett is injured, Broad was a replacement for him.

Don't think England did much wrong that game, just a case of the team batting second having a big advantage. England only got as many as they did because when the pitch played tricks the leading edges and grubbers didn't happen to result in wickets and South Africa's new ball bowling was poor. It was absolute cakewalk for South Africa when the pitch calmed down and the nighttime conditions helped the ball come on more.

The key to the game was Morgan winning the toss and choosing the wrong option. AB knew to bowl first.

 

[91Jmay]

Yeah that was a trash bowling performance, Jordan can't stay in the team. We need Finn back desperately.

 

[Pothas]

I expect that Broad will play the next couple of games.

 

[Stefan9]

Plunkett is injured, Broad was a replacement for him.

Don't think England did much wrong that game, just a case of the team batting second having a big advantage. England only got as many as they did because when the pitch played tricks the leading edges and grubbers didn't happen to result in wickets and South Africa's new ball bowling was poor. It was absolute cakewalk for South Africa when the pitch calmed down and the nighttime conditions helped the ball come on more.

The key to the game was Morgan winning the toss and choosing the wrong option. AB knew to bowl first.

Jip was a pretty ordinary decision by morgan. Obviously didn't know local conditions.Pretty much always bat second at centurion in limited overs matches, pitch always flattens out in the second innings.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Yeah that was a trash bowling performance, Jordan can't stay in the team. We need Finn back desperately.

Yes Jordan's crap. But it's a batsman's format when the pitch is essentially a road. One of the things they pointed out on TMS was that basically the same ball from Jordan got cover driven for four and whipped through midwicket for four. There's nowhere you could bowl on that pitch that the batsman couldn't hit for a boundary. Bowlers were cannon fodder.

 

[Prince EWS]

Was this genuinely England's best available bowling attack? I could be wrong but seems that they went all out to get as many bowling all-rounders as possible instead of picking the genuinely best bowlers. You don't need Willey & Rashid at 9 and 10, but you need your best bowlers.

but I haven't been following that closely maybe they are England's best bowlers

Nah it wasn't their best bowlers. As I indicated in this post above about Jordan:

It's a combination of several factors really.

- He had a fluky good start to his ODI career so his overall record never looks as terrible as he actually is.
- He can bat and he can seriously field.
- They don't want to overburden Anderson or Broad so they tend not to play many ODIs, especially away from home. (Broad has sucked at them for a while too, but that's probably a bit of a separate issue given we're comparing him to Jordan).
- Finn and Wood are currently (and often) injured.
- After you rule out Anderson, Broad, Finn and Wood and recognise that Topley, Willey and Stokes are already in the side, you're down to the eighth choice quick. Having a crappy eighth choice quick isn't really unusual.
- The selectors are terrible. Seriously, even after all that it's still pretty nuts that he gets picked ahead of Woakes or Plunkett. I think I'd even recall Bresnan before I played Jordan.

A mix of injuries, players being rested and England inexplicably selecting Jordan has seen them pick less than their best attack. I don't think it really has much to do with wanting as many bowling allrounders as possible; it just kind of worked out that way. Their next few fit bowlers outside the team -- Broad, Woakes, Bresnan -- are bowling allrounders as well, and Willey/Rashid are definitely amongst their best fit bowlers.

 

[Dan]

Was this genuinely England's best available bowling attack? I could be wrong but seems that they went all out to get as many bowling all-rounders as possible instead of picking the genuinely best bowlers. You don't need Willey & Rashid at 9 and 10, but you need your best bowlers.

but I haven't been following that closely maybe they are England's best bowlers

Willey and Rashid are definitely genuine bowlers in this team; their ability to bat is a bonus.

Willey would probably be surplus to requirements if Anderson and Broad were regularly playing JAMODIs together, since he's more-or-less a new ball specialist, but Anderson and Broad playing JAMODIs together is such an unrealistic hypothetical that I don't think it can really be held against Willey.

 

[Black_Warrior]

De Kock finding his form is the best news after Rabada for South Africa now.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Still haven't managed to catch any highlights but scanning the Cricinfo commentary, am I right in thinking Amla tracked Moeen so he bowled it over his head?