2016 Under 19 Cricket World Cup

[Athlai]

awesome

 

[SteveNZ]

Flippant question but do we actually pay much heed about what happens at U19 level (from an NZ perspective I'm using, but can apply to any country). A team featuring Gup, Munro, Southee, Boult (?) et all lost to Nepal however many years ago. If we continue to produce 1,2 or 3 international quality under-age players per cycle, I'm not sure it matters what the chaff looks like around the wheat or where we finish in a U19 World Cup.

Furthermore, apart from Southee and probably Baz at times, the guys in our national side now didn't dominate international age-group cricket. Gup didn't, BJ didn't, Ross didn't, even Kane's international U19 career isn't sparkling.

Don't want to rain on the parade of a tournament that is fun to watch and identify future stars, if that how it comes across.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Just came into the thread to say weldone to weldone, I was thinking about you while following the match on CricInfo haha.

 

[Bahnz]

Flippant question but do we actually pay much heed about what happens at U19 level (from an NZ perspective I'm using, but can apply to any country). A team featuring Gup, Munro, Southee, Boult (?) et all lost to Nepal however many years ago. If we continue to produce 1,2 or 3 international quality under-age players per cycle, I'm not sure it matters what the chaff looks like around the wheat or where we finish in a U19 World Cup.

Furthermore, apart from Southee and probably Baz at times, the guys in our national side now didn't dominate international age-group cricket. Gup didn't, BJ didn't, Ross didn't, even Kane's international U19 career isn't sparkling.

Don't want to rain on the parade of a tournament that is fun to watch and identify future stars, if that how it comes across.

Probably a fair question, but you've gotta admit, it's not a great look to be asking it after we've just been thrashed by a minnow.

 

[SteveNZ]

Probably a fair question, but you've gotta admit, it's not a great look to be asking it after we've just been thrashed by a minnow.

Yeah, it doesn't look great - I wanted to stress I have no sour grapes. It must have been a thrill for Nepal and I love an underdog winning anything. But where have Nepal gone as a nation since the last time they beat us at U19 level? Where has our cricket gone? A lot of our side has played for NZ, and Nepal to my knowledge are nowhere in the frame as a senior associate. I've never cared about U19 cricket unless I had mates in the team. Same with U20s rugby league for those who follow it - as despite the fact my team (the Warriors) have won 3 or so titles in probably 6 years, it's shown no correlation to success at the top level.

What I'm more concerned about from the loss is that Glenn didn't go on with the job, that there were three run-outs that proves these guys are not as mentally prepared as they could/should be etc.

 

[jcas0167]

Flippant question but do we actually pay much heed about what happens at U19 level (from an NZ perspective I'm using, but can apply to any country). A team featuring Gup, Munro, Southee, Boult (?) et all lost to Nepal however many years ago. If we continue to produce 1,2 or 3 international quality under-age players per cycle, I'm not sure it matters what the chaff looks like around the wheat or where we finish in a U19 World Cup.

Furthermore, apart from Southee and probably Baz at times, the guys in our national side now didn't dominate international age-group cricket. Gup didn't, BJ didn't, Ross didn't, even Kane's international U19 career isn't sparkling.

Don't want to rain on the parade of a tournament that is fun to watch and identify future stars, if that how it comes across.

I always follow them closely, although as with any team, you look at a reasonable sample of games and across different conditions. For example, the 1989 & 96 Youth teams that successfully toured England provided a number of players who were clearly going to feature prominently in future national sides. The 1998 & 2008 WC were too. You also get guys like Matt Horne who never made the national under 19 team, or Mark Richardson who was in the team as a spinner but ended up a successful test opener. It's only an indicator of who to keep an eye on, whether they become top international players depends on a number of other factors.

I was meaning to get this book 'Following On: A Year With English Cricket's Golden Boys' about how the England team that won the 98 WC fared.

 

[Kippax]

If we continue to produce 1,2 or 3 international quality under-age players per cycle, I'm not sure it matters what the chaff looks like around the wheat or where we finish in a U19 World Cup.

I'm a bit wary of an overwhelming priority towards the perky McGoldrick-style veneer that is the BLACKCAPS® tbh, which is why I personally enjoy following U19 play.

It's never a great idea to let your mind wander too far down the road of 'never mind the overall album quality, just make sure there's one extremely radio-friendly single'. NZC's probably never going to go broke by being commercially pragmatic like that, but it turns the listless vibe at domestic and club level into an unrealistic dream to ever make more vital and robust.

 

[Kippax]

 

[Kippax]

WIu19 XI: T Imlach, G Pope, S Hetmyer, K Carty, J Goolie, K Paul, S Springer, M Frew, K Kallicharan, A Joseph, O Smith

Kallicharan is an engine roomer these days apparently. He would be young for U19 play tbf.

 

[Kippax]

.

ENGu19 XI: D Lawrence, M Holden, J Burnham, C Taylor, G Bartlett, S Curran, R Davies, B Green, B Taylor, M Crane, S Mahmood

 

[Bahnz]

I'm a bit wary of an overwhelming priority towards the perky McGoldrick-style veneer that is the BLACKCAPS® tbh, which is why I personally enjoy following U19 play.

It's never a great idea to let your mind wander too far down the road of 'never mind the overall album quality, just make sure there's one extremely radio-friendly single'. NZC's probably never going to go broke by being commercially pragmatic like that, but it turns the listless vibe at domestic and club level into an unrealistic dream to ever make more vital and robust.

I agree (I think). I also don't think it's a coincidence that our best international side in the last 25 years (and a noticeable improvement in the standards of domestic cricket) emerged roughly 5 years after our best ever U19 side (the 2008 bunch).

Having said that, U19 sides are tough to use as a judge of future success because it's so dependent on timing. KW was a bit of a non-factor in 2008 because he was only 17 and a bit and a tad out of his depth, so it's also important not to read too much into things.

 

[Stace]

Cant wait to watch Sam Curran, this boy is a future world class all-rounder. As for Dan Lawrence **** it get him in the Test side this summer he cant be worse then the other openers we've tried since Strauss, learn on the job I say.

 

[theegyptian]

Lawrence moving to the offside is a lot more pronounced than the last time I remember watch him bat in lo cricket.

 

[SteveNZ]

I'm a bit wary of an overwhelming priority towards the perky McGoldrick-style veneer that is the BLACKCAPS® tbh, which is why I personally enjoy following U19 play.

It's never a great idea to let your mind wander too far down the road of 'never mind the overall album quality, just make sure there's one extremely radio-friendly single'. NZC's probably never going to go broke by being commercially pragmatic like that, but it turns the listless vibe at domestic and club level into an unrealistic dream to ever make more vital and robust.

Completely understand (the first par I mean, second gave me a headache and I fear it wasn't your best analogy work. I love albums).

I'm not saying my approach is for all and I applaud those who get right into U19 cricket. Just a question to see who was in a similar mindset to me.

 

[Kippax]

I wasn't saying you don't love albums, but I'm alluding to the "neither meaningfully capitalist nor socialist, just listlessly trucking on for the sake of it" filler like the Georgie Pie Super Smash or Plunket Shield.

Obviously you're got personal friendships like CdG that give it a lot more social context to you, but I really wish NZC would either go full Prince EWS and stop subsidising that **** entirely, or do a much better job of presenting cricket as something of aesthetic/intellectual value or intangibly purposeful.

 

[Prince EWS]

I agree (I think). I also don't think it's a coincidence that our best international side in the last 25 years (and a noticeable improvement in the standards of domestic cricket) emerged roughly 5 years after our best ever U19 side (the 2008 bunch).

I think Kippax was more saying that he thinks winning Under 19 games is a worthy end within itself; not that having a strong team overall rather than just a few gems was the best means to BlackCaps ends. I don't think you necessarily agree with his point, although I think he does agree with what you thought he was saying as well.

 

[Kippax]

Yeah it's not a perfect litmus test by any means, but I think U19 results can often give a worthwhile indication of how much that country is sincerely passionate about the game as an interest and recreation, because the requirement to compile a squad from within a tight age range makes it harder to professionally gloss over the cracks.

New Zealand U20 rugby will continue to be strong not just because of possible physical advantages, but because the country genuinely loves rugby all the way down to the ground. Australia can usually put together a very competitive Wallabies outfit, but traditionally not so strong at U20 level.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah it's not a perfect litmus test by any means, but I think U19 results can often give a worthwhile indication of how much that country is sincerely passionate about the game as an interest and recreation, because the requirement to compile a squad from within a tight age range makes it harder to professionally gloss over the cracks.

New Zealand U20 rugby will continue to be strong not just because of possible physical advantages, but because the country genuinely loves rugby all the way down to the ground. Australia can usually put together a very competitive Wallabies outfit, but traditionally not so strong at U20 level.

Yeah there does seem to be something a little bit purer about age-restricted international sport. I was talking to Marcuss off-forum after the Nepal result about how it's not the first time they've put in a good showing in this tournament, and how their relative ineptness in full internationals shows the impact of the professional structures in other countries in developing the talent that's produced.

ICC funding can be a bit self-fulfilling in the results it creates sometimes. For example, Zimbabwe have a better international team than Nepal and therefore receive more funding, but a good argument could be made, particularly post-2005, that Zimbabwe have a better international team than Nepal almost entirely because of ICC funding. This becomes even truer if you look beyond literal grants and towards the effective funding that being part of the established international circuit produces.

Under 19 competitions are a bit of an equaliser in they strip away some of those structural advantages the established teams have in turning talented players into competent professionals. Most people who follow this competition do so to get a sneak peak at tomorrow's stars, but I can see the allure in following it because it, in a way, actually has more meaning.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I remember being disappointed when we hosted in 2009 and got knocked out by the Aussies (including Mitchell Marsh and Hazlewood) in the quarters,

Pretty decent side on paper:
New Zealand Under-19 squad for World Cup announced

 

[91Jmay]

Dan Lawrence with runs again. Kid is a super talent, can't remember being so excited about an England batsmen at this level.

Should get 270 from here.