***Official*** Pakistan in New Zealand - T20/ODI series - Jan 2016

[Athlai]

Because at the time he was dropped he had actually been our most consistent ODI bat. IIRC a few senior players were out injured and/or not performing and he was doing a pretty good job.

He wasn't our best but he was performing better than anyone else at that time. The fact that the bar was extremely low is why I deemed the point hyperbole - not because it was untrue but because it wasn't really a fair representation.

This is not true. He had plenty of low scores in a row and was then dropped.

Edit: And his SR was even worse then I remembered.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=2;template=results;type=batting;view=innings

Had a fine 2012 but was looking absolutely dreadful when he was dropped.

 

[hendrix]

This is not true. He had plenty of low scores in a row and was then dropped.

Edit: And his SR was even worse then I remembered.

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Had a fine 2012 but was looking absolutely dreadful when he was dropped.

4 Nov-23 Feb
55
96*
15
DNB
45
12
20
2
7
1

5 low scores, in relatively low scoring matches in which most batsmen failed.

The 2 previous series he'd been our best batsman.

 

[Athlai]

Watling has the weirdest ODI stats. It's literally backwards.

- Has lost 75% of the ODIs he has played
- Bats better in losses than wins (31.53 vs. 23.60)
- Bats better with the gloves than without (51.28 vs. 15.36)
- Bats better away (36.85 vs. 3.33)
- Has significantly better stats @ 6 than in the top order (63.66 vs. 22.47)

 

[SteveNZ]

But we DO know how good Watling can be at ODI level.

We know because he was our best ODI bat at the time he was dropped.

Hyperbole, sure, but he absolutely can fill that Grant Elliott role at 5. Sure, Grunter added some t20 slogging ability late in his career, but you'd back Watling to do the same if asked as well.

But the thing is, he was batting at 1-2-3 when he was the best in the side. That's not available. And I have serious doubts he can be the player Grant Elliott is. I'm sure those doubts are shared by a lot of others.

I think back then after failures in SA, v Eng at home I thought he was slightly harshly dropped. But results after that showed it to be a wise decision, and he hasn't demanded reselection.

And Athlai's stats with a 75% losing percentage and higher average in losses...that's not good reading, even if you don't think we were a flash side then.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I would quite like Watling as a floater to bat 5 and play that Henry Nicholls type of innings if required or drop down to let the hitters 'finish' if required.

Latham
Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
Watling wk (but can drop down)
Anderson
Munro
Santner
Henry
Milne
Boult

 

[Bahnz]

Because at the time he was dropped he had actually been our most consistent ODI bat. IIRC a few senior players were out injured and/or not performing and he was doing a pretty good job.

He wasn't our best but he was performing better than anyone else at that time. The fact that the bar was extremely low is why I deemed the point hyperbole - not because it was untrue but because it wasn't really a fair representation.

Yeah, neither of these statements are true, even if you ignore the dramatic tailing off in his form in the leadup to his axing.

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

First of all, the argument that he was our most consistent ODI bat at the time that he was dropped is a bit feeble. His scores during this period clearly show that he experienced excellent form during the 2nd half of 2012, and very poor form in the first half of 2013 (of which only 2 were low scoring matches).

Secondly, Watling's numbers during this period were more or less on par with KW's (who had slightly lower average but a superior SR), and lower than Taylor's (who admittedly missed the SA ODI's - though that was already after Watling's form had already fallen away). McCullum also posted similar numbers during this period at a vastly superior SR.

Watling really deserved to be persevered with for longer in 2013, and deserves another run in the side now. But arguing that he "our best ODI bat at the time he was dropped", given his poor strike rate (barely 4rpo) and rapid drop in form is ott in the extreme.

 

[hendrix]

SR /= RPO, but aside from that stop hitting me with these truth bombs

 

[Flem274*]

He was in the middle order (#4 a few times iirc when we had a pile of injuries and restings) when he was the stand out, anchoring the inevitable collapse as the spud reserves played golf at the other end really badly. This was during the ten million odi tours in the middle of winter at midnight phase where jow public didn't care so nz took the piss with their selections.

When we were full strength against England he had to open because at the time that was the available spot and he sucked. Then he got dropped.

I'd like to see him tried at #5 looking towards 2019

 

[Athlai]

He was in the middle order (#4 a few times iirc when we had a pile of injuries and restings) when he was the stand out, anchoring the inevitable collapse as the spud reserves played golf at the other end really badly. This was during the ten million odi tours in the middle of winter at midnight phase where jow public didn't care so nz took the piss with their selections.

When we were full strength against England he had to open because at the time that was the available spot and he sucked. Then he got dropped.

I'd like to see him tried at #5 looking towards 2019

Watling has never batted at #4 for NZ.

 

[Prince EWS]

I'd like to see him tried at #5 looking towards 2019

Yeah bingo. I think it really works too because the younger allrounders are more icing-ish than Elliott. So Watling does Elliott's batting role and Ronchi's keeping role, and one of the young allrounders (Anderson if Santner continues to bat in the top 7, or Neesham/Munro if Santner goes back down to 8) do Ronchi's batting role and Elliott's bowling role.

 

[Dan]

Just going to leave this here:
Tour Match: Scotland v New Zealand A at Ayr, Aug 15, 2014 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Watling had 193 @ 38.60, SR 136.87 for that tour. Sure, the ton was against Scotland, but let's not act as if Watling doesn't have multiple gears.

 

[Prince EWS]

The fact that it was a postage stamp is more mitigating than the opposition. I think I remember watching that game.

 

[Dan]

I watched a bit of that series too; when Macewell was compiling the worst hundred known to man and Luggage was batting exactly the same way he always does, Beej was finding a way to middle seemingly everything.

But seriously, that Macewell ton was pretty much the worst thing I've ever seen. So, so bad.

 

[Bahnz]

Cricket: Black Caps' bowling coach to stand down - Sport - NZ Herald News

Didn't fully buy in to the argument that he was the source of all our bowling woes, but still don't regret his departure that much.

 

[NZTailender]

I hope we replace him with a legit great bowler. Our bowlers seemed at their best when Bond and previously Donald had worked with them.

 

[Athlai]

Haven't been entirely sold on the Mascarenhas and McMillan combo. Not that I really know anything beyond the on-field results. Our bowling plans have just been a bit underwhelming and I think McMillan is responsible for the YOLO attitude of the tail's batting.

 

[Dan]

Get Vaas post-T20 WC imo. Southee/Boult were gun in SL 2012 when Vaas was assisting Bond.

 

[hendrix]

Get Vaas post-T20 WC imo. Southee/Boult were gun in SL 2012 when Vaas was assisting Bond.

I think you're not reading between the lines:

"Need to prioritise the family" = "they're not paying me enough".
And the family thing is actually legit considering the only less isolated place in the world would be Antarctica.

I think he's likely gunning for an IPL contract and/or a county role. Hell even Big Bash coaching probably pays more.

 

[Athlai]

Is he still the coach of the Volts?

 

[SteveNZ]

He was in the middle order (#4 a few times iirc when we had a pile of injuries and restings) when he was the stand out, anchoring the inevitable collapse as the spud reserves played golf at the other end really badly. This was during the ten million odi tours in the middle of winter at midnight phase where jow public didn't care so nz took the piss with their selections.

When we were full strength against England he had to open because at the time that was the available spot and he sucked. Then he got dropped.

I'd like to see him tried at #5 looking towards 2019

It probably could work with him at #5 going forward. But I'd want a few provisos. One is that it's his position until 2019, unless he was absolutely horrendous for a long period of time. Secondly, that he just doesn't blindly come in at 5 every time. If it's the powerplay, latter overs, a chase where impetus is needed etc, he gets out of the way.

With Anderson, Munro, Neesham whomever at 6 and 7, it does make some sense. We'd just have to concede that it's a work in progress and it's not going to bear fruit right away. BJ is not equipped to be a great #5 right now. He could possibly (only possibly) become one. I'm okay with that because a) he's proven in his career to be adaptable, a great team man etc b) I don't generally care about meaningless ODI series' between WCs (unless it is v the singing canaries across the ditch) and c) there is absolutely nothing else to nurture with the gloves. And consistently being exposed to international cricket may maximise his Test worth.

But still, Latham with the gloves is probably a better move.