The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Gob]

Really? If you remove his record against England (arguably one of the weakest bowling sides Waugh faced), Steve has 7727 runs (the same number as Ian Bell) at 48.59. I could be reading far too much into statistics here but those numbers aren't the numbers of an ATG.

Ashes great? Yes. ATG? I'm not convinced...

Take England out and Viv Richards averages 46 and you could argue that England was the weakest attack Viv has faced as well. The thing is all great players feast on poor bowling while still holding their own against great ones. I don't think Sachin's record against great pace attacks in the 90's was that great either (prob worst than Waugh's though did not check) but he played at least one great knock per series when he faced up to them. The thing is its pretty ****ing hard to average nice fat 55 against ATG bowlers.

If you want to go full on stats Waugh averages 50 against both SA and WI with 9 tons when Ambrose and Donald were firing in all cylinders. As good as Border imo

 

[OverratedSanity]

Alec Stewart > Ganguly too tbh

 

[smash84]

Alec Stewart > Ganguly too tbh

keeping wise perhaps

 

[91Jmay]

Stewie shouldn't be on anyone's lists unless he is keeper then I can see an argument (but not much of one). Averaged 46 against some ridiculous attacks without the gloves.

 

[The Sean]

A lot of blokes picking Heals in their teams - a sign of how dickish his commentary is to turn opinion against him, or do people here genuinely think Boucher was a better gloveman?

 

[91Jmay]

Much better bat made the difference for me.

 

[harsh.ag]

A lot of blokes picking Heals in their teams - a sign of how dickish his commentary is to turn opinion against him, or do people here genuinely think Boucher was a better gloveman?

Haha yeah, picked Boucher, but most just think Boucher's batting would make him a stronger pick.

 

[Captain_Cook]

Atherton
Stewart (c, wk)
Fleming
Bell
Hooper
Vengsarkar
Ganguly
Vettori
Vaas
Anderson
Ntini

 

[harsh.ag]

Chris Gayle
Sanath Jayasuriya
Andrew Strauss
Stephen Fleming
Dilip Vengsarkar
Saleem Malik
Mark Boucher +
Dan Vettori
Chaminda Vaas
James Anderson
Makhaya Ntini

How the hell did Saleem Malik not make it to any of the lists yet? Inzi, watson, seriously?

Forgot Hooper. Him in for Vengsarkar.

 

[Camo999]

R/H Bat, R/A Bowl	L/H Bat, L/A Bowl	L/H Bat, R/A Bowl	R/H Bat, L/A Bowl
Hobbs	Lawry	Hayden	V Mankad
Grace	Morris	*G Smith	McCartney
Bradman	Leyland	Sangakkara	D Compton
Tendulkar	*Border	G Pollock	*Worrell
V Richards	Sobers	Lara	Inzamam
Miller	Shakib Al Hasan	N Harvey	M Clarke
*Imran	+J Adams??	+Gilchrist	+M Bissett
+Knott	Davidson	Hadlee	W Rhodes
Marshall	Wasim Akram	S Broad	Z Khan
Warne	M Johnson	O'Reilly	Underwood
Barnes	B Johnston	Ambrose	Boult

I wonder has there ever been a totally left handed player keep in test cricket? Struggling to find one.

 

[honestbharani]

I remember Darren Lehmann keeping in a few games somewhere. Jimmy Adams too. Both were full lefties.

 

[91Jmay]

There was this Gilchrist bloke who was reasonable I heard.

 

[Howe_zat]

There was this Gilchrist bloke who was reasonable I heard.

Gilchrist bowled right arm mediums. So do any lefty wicketkeepers I can find who have any record of their bowling style. I did manage to find the best name of a cricketer ever on the search, at least.

~

I think the point where I was finding myself trying in vain to track down match reports that mentioned what Niall O'Brien was bowling when he got Carlton Baugh out in a first-class match in 2010 led to a moment of serious introspection

 

[91Jmay]

Oh I swore I remember him bowling left armers once. Memory failing me once again.

Quinton de Kock has bowled 1 over in FC cricket, anyone know what he lobbed down?

 

[honestbharani]

Jimmy Paddams is your answer dude.. Saying it again.

 

[Camo999]

Yeah Jimmy could be it. I vaguely recall him keeping in a few ODIs. Quite bizarre that there's not a definite full leftie test keeper listed on statsguru.

 

[Red]

If Bell is in the team then Waugh is in the team. Very similar players.

MWaugh is a superior player to Bell, by a margin. But if you just look at stasguru you wouldn't get that.

 

[Red]

Really? If you remove his record against England (arguably one of the weakest bowling sides Waugh faced), Steve has 7727 runs (the same number as Ian Bell) at 48.59. I could be reading far too much into statistics here but those numbers aren't the numbers of an ATG.

Ashes great? Yes. ATG? I'm not convinced...

I hate this argument so much! If you take out anyone's record against a weaker team of their era will their stats go up or down? Herp derp. And anyhow, he still averages 49 with England out!

 

[Captain_Cook]

I hate this argument so much! If you take out anyone's record against a weaker team of their era will their stats go up or down? Herp derp. And anyhow, he still averages 49 with England out!

I realise the shortcomings of my method. I overlooked how extraordinary the bowling strength was in that era: Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Waqar, Wasim, Donald, Pollock, Murali, Kumble. Averaging nearly 50 against that lot is very impressive.

 

[morgieb]

Much better bat made the difference for me.

Ehh, Healy's batting average is only three runs worse. Not a lot in it for mine and Healy is the much better keeper AFAIC.