***Official*** England in South Africa 2015/16

[flibbertyjibber]

Agree about QDK and Van Zyl and Rilee.

Not sure about Philander at seven though, might be a spot too high.

SA has an interesting problem now. Steyn will walk into the team as soon as he is fit, and there's no way you can leave KG out now. But who is your third seamer? Stick with Morkel or bring back Philander?

Piedt has done enough to be your number one spinner for now, I think.

Fitness will probably dictate that. Having Rabada means you can perhaps get more out of the rest as you might be able to rotate them to keep the players with niggles off the park instead of breaking down long term after trying to play through the pain.

 

[vcs]

Philander, he is to consistently good, even when not taking wickets he still keeps one end quiet. And his bat makes a big difference to our tail.

This, so much. Let Morne and Kagiso fight it out. Rabada will have some bad games and injuries also, you'd expect. Not bad having Morkel to challenge him.

 

[StephenZA]

QdK was ordinary with the gloves in this game from what I saw. Missed at least 3 clear opportunities off Piedt in the 2nd innings alone.

He will need to work on his keeping to spin... but his fast bowling is good. This is classic SA keeping, same was true with Boucher. he is 23 give him another couple of years and I think he will improve dramatically.

 

[CapeTown Guy]

QdK was ordinary with the gloves in this game from what I saw. Missed at least 3 clear opportunities off Piedt in the 2nd innings alone.

Then you have obviously not watched Villas behind the stumps often. That is normal fair for him. QdK is much younger and as far as their keeping goes there might not be much between them, but QDK is a proven international batsman, Villas is a nonsense - 200 domestically last week aside.

The SA lower order in Tests should be 7 Qdk 8 philander, 9 Rabada, 10 Piedt, 11 Steyn (though tbf not much difference between the last 3.)

Cook has surely done enough to get the berth for the foreseeable future, so has Bavuma.

That leaves us with a top six of Elgar, Cook, Hash, AB, Someone, Bavuma.

The obvious options for Nr 5 are JP and Faf - the tried and tested - or SvZ or Rossouw. Stiaan probably deserves another shot in a position he is accustomed to. So does Rossouw tbf...

 

[Stefan9]

Agree about QDK and Van Zyl and Rilee.

Not sure about Philander at seven though, might be a spot too high.

SA has an interesting problem now. Steyn will walk into the team as soon as he is fit, and there's no way you can leave KG out now. But who is your third seamer? Stick with Morkel or bring back Philander?

Piedt has done enough to be your number one spinner for now, I think.

Its not hard Philander over morkel every day. Big Vern 22.08 per wicket strike rate of 48 9 5 wicket hauls and 2 10 wickets. Morkel average of 29.48 strikerate of 56.6 6 5 wicket hauls and no 10 wicket hauls. This before we even bring the batting into equation.

If all are fit and inform then steyn,philander and rabada plays.

 

[vcs]

Oh if Vilas is the only alternative, he should walk in there.

 

[Marius]

Its not hard Philander over morkel every day. Big Vern 22.08 per wicket strike rate of 48 9 5 wicket hauls and 2 10 wickets. Morkel average of 29.48 strikerate of 56.6 6 5 wicket hauls and no 10 wicket hauls. This before we even bring the batting into equation.

If all are fit and inform then steyn,philander and rabada plays.

And Philander brings you something a bit different too.

If they were assassins Morkel would use a shotgun to blow your head off, while Philander would quietly slit your throat while you're watching TV at home.

 

[Shady Slim]

the thing with the saf bowling attack that i haven't seen someone put in to the fray here is the variety morkel offers

the thing that's so great about philander/steyn/morkel is they all bring something different to the table, rabada seems to offer less variety than morkel. now that doesn't mean at all he's a worse bowler but morkel in full form i'd say compliments the rest of the attack better.

that said

like stated by someone else it's awesome for your first bowling reserve to have the quality of morkel or rabada because it means you can rotate well

 

[burr]

Mmm, I'd be pretty p'd off if I was England coach and captain. That was poor. But. ..Rabada. Yay, that's why I love test cricket. All up, great series. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

[Furball]

It would've been nice to have least tried to bat for the draw. Losing doesn't take any of the shine off what has been an excellent series win however it's a bit concerning that other than the Dubai effort recently and Anderson's last ball heartbreak against Sri Lanka a couple of years ago England have capitulated when there's been an opportunity to bat out a draw.

 

[LegionOfBrad]

Well played Rabada and South Africa. God we are **** at dead rubbers aren't we. Game was lost with them getting 475 really.

I expect barring injury we'll probably see the same batting order and then Finn for Woakes (and that should be the end of him in Tests, PLEASE!) in May, and if issues are still there after first two Sri Lanka tests we switch. I do not want to see Compo opening and Ballance at 3.

Woakes will never be the swing answer after Jimmy's retirement and we should stop with that **** now.

 

[Compton]

Tell you what, wasn't hard to find a MOTM, was it?

 

[social]

I find it hard to believe that England cant find a place for Bell

At his worst, he is better than Hales, Compton & Taylor

 

[Captain_Cook]

I find it hard to believe that England cant find a place for Bell

At his worst, he is better than Hales, Compton & Taylor

Bell may slot back in at 5 if Taylor fails against Sri Lanka. I think he's much better at 5 & 6 than any other position.

 

[Garson007]

"All initial scans were clear but when symptoms did not improve, we discovered a reaction in the bone itself," Moosajee said. "This is very rare in fast bowlers as it is usually caused by trauma."

Dale Steyn ruled out of England ODI series with shoulder injury | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

Yikes! That sounds potentially career ending.

Philander is also out until an undetermined time. Is he a smoker or what? How is a torn ligament taking so long?

 

[LegionOfBrad]

"All initial scans were clear but when symptoms did not improve, we discovered a reaction in the bone itself," Moosajee said. "This is very rare in fast bowlers as it is usually caused by trauma."

Dale Steyn ruled out of England ODI series with shoulder injury | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

Yikes! That sounds potentially career ending.

Philander is also out until an undetermined time. Is he a smoker or what? How is a torn ligament taking so long?

Vern appears to not be one who takes downtime fitness very seriously. I think he also has the sort of body where he puts weight on quite easily.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Vern appears to not be one who takes downtime fitness very seriously. I think he also has the sort of body where he puts weight on quite easily.

Be up to DD cup size by now.

 

[SeamUp]

Well done to England no matter how much it pains me to say it, but you guys won because you won the key moments more often.

Looking at your re-building job, it has been a pleasure to watch some of your new generation. There are some weak links that need to be addressed to make you a team that can win all around the world for a period of time like we did & other great/v.good teams before us but really thought it was a refreshing English cricket attitude.

For the Proteas, we slowly getting there. We probably needed this defeat to shake us up quicker to see who can cut it and who can't.

Elgar, Cook, Amla, AB, Bavuma , X, De Kock, Piedt, 3 of Philander, Abbott, Rabada, Morkel, Steyn.

Elgar, Cook, Bavuma, de Kock, Rabada can be really pleased with their series/contributions. Those are positives.

We need to say where is Faf & JP in their careers? Do they just play a role in ODI cricket and will that effect them ? I think for a reserve batsman it would seem one of them but I would look to the next generation & say van Zyl get runs in the middle order and push Rossouw, de Bruyn whoever.

We need to find that all-rounder. I think Morris has ability but right now I would say he needs more discipline at the highest level but certainly shown he has a bit about him. On the others - I've said it many times but I am no Wiese, Parnell, Pretorius fan. The future is Savage, Phehlukwayo, Mulder, Galiem. But Savage needs to stay on the park !

Captaincy ! Amla definitely couldn't deal with it. AB has never failed like he did since he took over the captaincy like that (only maybe when he was a youngster. That leaves Elgar and Cook but is it too early to expect them to take on that role ?

 

[Dan]

Man the knees are jerking hard.

All of the top sides are developing; none are gun standout teams. You'll get games where they look awesome, and you'll get games where they look utterly inept. We're in a weird era of international cricket where teams are, overall, pretty evenly matched -- but because they win by shedloads and lose by shedloads, not because every single game is going down to the wire.

Sometimes perfectly fine teams play poorly. That happened to South Africa early in the series, and it happened to England in this game. Equally, sometimes perfectly fine teams play extremely well (invert the end of the last sentence). No reason to be so incredibly reactionary that you throw out babies with the bathwater.

ABdV failing a couple of times doesn't mean he can't handle the captaincy; he's been perfectly fine doing it in the shorter formats. Maybe he, uhh, just had a bad day at the office, got a good ball, or made a mistake. He's not Superman, and he's not Bradman either. **** happens; after three innings you don't have nearly enough to draw extended conclusions. Similarly, as bad as he's been in the last year, I think it's a mistake to write off Faf as done for good. The guy still averages over 40 in Test cricket, made 86 in Cape Town, and has played some pretty bloody important knocks for South Africa in recent years. He sucked in India and was pretty mediocre here, but to condemn him as a Test cricketer is stupid.

Similarly, one quick ton for Quinton de Kock doesn't mean he's suddenly an amazing Test batsman. He's good, but he has a lot to learn (and I imagine he will).

On the England side, writing off Compton and Taylor to immediately go back to Ian 'Pretty cover drive but averaging 3 in the last year' Bell after a single loss is similarly stupid. Compton has been perfectly fine this series, though he does certainly need to kick on and make the place his own (hey Bayliss, help him out there, hey?). Taylor deserves more than a handful of Tests to prove himself. He's done it at FC level, and he's done it in ODIs. Give him a proper chance to adjust to Test cricket.

As for the opener? Who knows who'll do that for the home summer. I'm gonna say Cook-Compo and bring in Ansari at 3 because Ansari , or give Tom Abell a very premature crack because Somerset, but, uhh, yeah. I'm willing to concede doom and gloom there.

 

[Prince EWS]

Man the knees are jerking hard.

All of the top sides are developing; none are gun standout teams. You'll get games where they look awesome, and you'll get games where they look utterly inept. We're in a weird era of international cricket where teams are, overall, pretty evenly matched -- but because they win by shedloads and lose by shedloads, not because every single game is going down to the wire.

Sometimes perfectly fine teams play poorly. That happened to South Africa early in the series, and it happened to England in this game. Equally, sometimes perfectly fine teams play extremely well (invert the end of the last sentence). No reason to be so incredibly reactionary that you throw out babies with the bathwater.

ABdV failing a couple of times doesn't mean he can't handle the captaincy; he's been perfectly fine doing it in the shorter formats. Maybe he, uhh, just had a bad day at the office, got a good ball, or made a mistake. He's not Superman, and he's not Bradman either. **** happens; after three innings you don't have nearly enough to draw extended conclusions. Similarly, as bad as he's been in the last year, I think it's a mistake to write off Faf as done for good. The guy still averages over 40 in Test cricket, made 86 in Cape Town, and has played some pretty bloody important knocks for South Africa in recent years. He sucked in India and was pretty mediocre here, but to condemn him as a Test cricketer is stupid.

Similarly, one quick ton for Quinton de Kock doesn't mean he's suddenly an amazing Test batsman. He's good, but he has a lot to learn (and I imagine he will).

On the England side, writing off Compton and Taylor to immediately go back to Ian 'Pretty cover drive but averaging 3 in the last year' Bell after a single loss is similarly stupid. Compton has been perfectly fine this series, though he does certainly need to kick on and make the place his own (hey Bayliss, help him out there, hey?). Taylor deserves more than a handful of Tests to prove himself. He's done it at FC level, and he's done it in ODIs. Give him a proper chance to adjust to Test cricket.

As for the opener? Who knows who'll do that for the home summer. I'm gonna say Cook-Compo and bring in Ansari at 3 because Ansari , or give Tom Abell a very premature crack because Somerset, but, uhh, yeah. I'm willing to concede doom and gloom there.

I agree with most of that post, but I think most of those calling for Bell want him to bat 3 with Compton opening rather than to replace Compton or Taylor.