***Official*** England in South Africa 2015/16

[indiaholic]

But current period notwithstanding, Steyn has had a pretty injury free career so far.

Generally for fast bowlers, I think the injury risk is greater than that for batsmen. That is probably the reason why people are a bit apprehensive about giving them the captaincy.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Generally for fast bowlers, I think the injury risk is greater than that for batsmen. That is probably the reason why people are a bit apprehensive about giving them the captaincy.

Yeah true.

 

[Daemon]

There was a time when Cricinfo was excellent. They have been quite average for a while now though.

They really need to work on the mobile site, it's a complete joke that I'm unable to check out Cook's recent form in the Sunfoil on it.

 

[StephenZA]

Would you ever consider Steyn (not that it is even a distinct possibility) but just for discussion's sake.
I wonder why bowlers are never trusted with the captaincy. Top performer, automatic selection, great attitude, generally one of the fittest players, is generally well respected both within his team and in international circles.

While he has the bowling skills and seniority and respect just don`t think that he has the leadership abilities.

Nah Amla can't be given anything. Don't you know that you can't look like him and not be able to make your own decisions?

I understand what you say, but realistically he kept turning down all other vice-cpt etc positions, cpt at provincial level etc... then when Smith retires unexpectedly, is the last person to put his hat into the ring after discussion with CSA higher ups... no I don't think he was forced but I don`t think he would have put his hat in unless other back-room and administrative politics had forced him into it. Yes he gave it a try but I think that he would have been very happy with AB getting the job at the very beginning.

By the way we don`t have any great cpt material in the team atm. AB deserves a chance but I`m not convinced. Possible Elgar but he is not senior enough yet.. we shall see.

 

[indiaholic]

Faf always seemed like he would be a good captain. Shame his batting isn't good enough.

 

[Black_Warrior]

By the way we don`t have any great cpt material in the team atm. AB deserves a chance but I`m not convinced. Possible Elgar but he is not senior enough yet.. we shall see.

From my experience, captaincy material is something that players tend to demonstrate over a period of time. No one would have thought Smith would be the leader he became during 03 WC when he was entrusted.


Similarly with Smith, he came from nowhere, no one would have given him a chance.

I think AB has the right ingredients, he has the added benefit of being able to lead by his own superlative performances. The only thing lacking is on the tactical front but that what most captains learn on the job. Usually if a captain gets a consistent core group of players for about 2 years, he generally figures out his own style, and how to extract the best from his team.

Problem is the doubts over AB's future. He is only 31 but if he sees himself having at least another 5 years of international cricket, I don't see why he cannot develop into a sound leader


With Amla, I think the main reason people questioned his credentials or decision making ability is his personality, and it is not entirely unjustified. He comes across as too soft at times in interviews and in general. I have heard him run himself down on a couple of occasions, about he isn't all that as a batsman etc. There isn't really nothing wrong with that at an individual level. It's just a personality thing. Some players like McGrath or Kohli or AB like to put up a more positive or stronger show, demonstrate their confidence and their own ability. Kohli recently said he would score 2 centuries in Australia. Amla prefers to keep it simple and just let his performance do the talking, that's completely fine for Amla the batsman.

But the problem starts when he is the captain. Firstly, he refused it once so that just reinforces that perception, that he himself doesn't think he is up to it. You get the impression that perhaps his attitude or approach is not assertive enough. I mean imagine a captain speaking to his team and saying something like "yeah we are number 1 but we aren't really all that you know, there are a few teams better than us"

I am not saying he did all that. How he actually was in the dressing room, only the team can speak for it. But he gives that impression, which is why he has to convince people that he has the decision making prowess and affirmation required. I don't think any other captain would have to make those affirmations that they can make decisions and are up to it. It's his personality working against him in this case.

 

[duffer]

Ok, that got my attention

 

[StephenZA]

From my experience, captaincy material is something that players tend to demonstrate over a period of time. No one would have thought Smith would be the leader he became during 03 WC when he was entrusted.


Similarly with Smith, he came from nowhere, no one would have given him a chance.

I think AB has the right ingredients, he has the added benefit of being able to lead by his own superlative performances. The only thing lacking is on the tactical front but that what most captains learn on the job. Usually if a captain gets a consistent core group of players for about 2 years, he generally figures out his own style, and how to extract the best from his team.

Problem is the doubts over AB's future. He is only 31 but if he sees himself having at least another 5 years of international cricket, I don't see why he cannot develop into a sound leader.

For me you get natural leaders and leaders that "learn" to lead. Smith had always shown good natural leadership material, from school all the way to provincial level, he was just brash and young with no real experience of international. But he always was a great leader, he just proved it over time.

AB is a fantastic player and the team and players appreciate what he is capable of but I`m not convinced in his natural leadership ability. But that does not mean he cant learn to lead well.

 

[Pothas]

It feels like Woakes has been bowling all day.

 

[indiaholic]

AB makes weird statements like "I feel like all hope is gone" which may or may not be true but half of leadership is pretending that you believe the exact opposite.

 

[Black_Warrior]

AB makes weird statements like "I feel like all hope is gone" which may or may not be true but half of leadership is pretending that you believe the exact opposite.

I think that's more a reflection of some back room stuff going on rather than his general captaincy. But yeah that was a poor statement.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Love the song Shosholoza in the background. Reminds me of Invictus

 

[Prince EWS]

 

[Marius]

While he has the bowling skills and seniority and respect just don`t think that he has the leadership abilities.

I understand what you say, but realistically he kept turning down all other vice-cpt etc positions, cpt at provincial level etc... then when Smith retires unexpectedly, is the last person to put his hat into the ring after discussion with CSA higher ups... no I don't think he was forced but I don`t think he would have put his hat in unless other back-room and administrative politics had forced him into it. Yes he gave it a try but I think that he would have been very happy with AB getting the job at the very beginning.

By the way we don`t have any great cpt material in the team atm. AB deserves a chance but I`m not convinced. Possible Elgar but he is not senior enough yet.. we shall see.

Apparently lots of guys rate Faf as a leader, but he's a no-go till he starts batting properly again.

 

[Scaly piscine]

This is unfortunately what will tend to happen if you drop people behind the wicket and make weak selections like Woakes.

Not going to keep getting away with it.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Apparently lots of guys rate Faf as a leader, but he's a no-go till he starts batting properly again.

I think it will come down to Faf vs Dean after AB.

 

[StephenZA]

With Amla, I think the main reason people questioned his credentials or decision making ability is his personality, and it is not entirely unjustified. He comes across as too soft at times in interviews and in general. I have heard him run himself down on a couple of occasions, about he isn't all that as a batsman etc. There isn't really nothing wrong with that at an individual level. It's just a personality thing. Some players like McGrath or Kohli or AB like to put up a more positive or stronger show, demonstrate their confidence and their own ability. Kohli recently said he would score 2 centuries in Australia. Amla prefers to keep it simple and just let his performance do the talking, that's completely fine for Amla the batsman.

But the problem starts when he is the captain. Firstly, he refused it once so that just reinforces that perception, that he himself doesn't think he is up to it. You get the impression that perhaps his attitude or approach is not assertive enough. I mean imagine a captain speaking to his team and saying something like "yeah we are number 1 but we aren't really all that you know, there are a few teams better than us"

I am not saying he did all that. How he actually was in the dressing room, only the team can speak for it. But he gives that impression, which is why he has to convince people that he has the decision making prowess and affirmation required. I don't think any other captain would have to make those affirmations that they can make decisions and are up to it. It's his personality working against him in this case.

While some of what you say is correct.. the surprise was always that he never wanted to lead, even at school level. provincial level he refused and did not even want to be VC of SA ODI side.... so to suddenly take on full captaincy was a surprise and the manner in which it happened made everyone suspicious. I think he would always rather do his work from the background in his own quite manner.

 

[Oduodu]

Cricket Records | Sunfoil Series, 2015/16 | Records | Tournament statistics | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Black_Warrior]

Mighty impressed with Cook here. His judgement of length, awareness of his off stump totally impeccable. This is something Van Zyl struggled to do.

 

[Marius]

While some of what you say is correct.. the surprise was always that he never wanted to lead, even at school level. provincial level he refused and did not even want to be VC of SA ODI side.... so to suddenly take on full captaincy was a surprise and the manner in which it happened made everyone suspicious. I think he would always rather do his work from the background in his own quite manner.

Amla became the skipper of the Dolphins at 21, but stood down after a while. The exact length of time he was captain escapes me.

He is obviously a leader, but more of a backroom guy, more like Kallis maybe.