***Official*** Pakistan in New Zealand - T20/ODI series - Jan 2016

[Hurricane]

Yeah but I'm saying the increase in scoring won't be because of a change in mindset but because you'll have 7 or 8 guys who can smash 20 off 10 balls consistently. At the moment there's only a few guys who can do that.

I'll meet you half way.

Yes there are only a few players who can smash 20 off 10 balls consistently today.

Let's say that tomorrow we took my advice and stacked the team with the best sloggers in the country? Who do we really have now that Brendon has retired?

Probably Martin, Munro, Corey.

In the domestic ranks there is CDG but he can't handle raw pace. There is a dearth of guys who can slog quickly and average more than 20.

So yes in the future we will have more guys to choose from who can score quickly. Part of that will be a greater focus on slogging from a young age (unfortunately). Part of it will be a conceptual approach of how to construct your inning. There are conscious things you can do from a mindset POV:

1) I won't wait 2/3 overs before trying to slog.
2) I will be prepared to slog spinners rather than working them for singles.
3) I will have a more aggressive mindset and know that I need 200 runs in order for my team to win.

 

[Athlai]

10 overs to go
8 wickets in hand
83 runs required to win
The guy who scored 48 (30) from this point isn't who lost us the game. The spuds who scored 16 runs from the other 30 did.

 

[Jono]

10 overs to go
8 wickets in hand
83 runs required to win
The guy who scored 48 (30) from this point isn't who lost us the game. The spuds who scored 16 runs from the other 30 did.

yep. definitely.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

I truly hope Hurricane is wrong, but my head tells me he's correct in that T20 will just be a line-up of sloggers.

Look at it like this. If Guptill and Williamson open in an ODI and are both still in at the 30-over mark, we'll start hitting from then. "The slog" now begins around the 30th over in ODIs if there are wickets in hand.

At the start of a T20 is just like that. It's exactly like being 30 overs into an ODI no wickets down because there are 20 overs left and you have 10 wickets in hand.

Therefore, if hitting with 20 overs and 10 wickets left makes sense in an ODI, it makes sense in a T20 which has the same mathematics.

Question for Hurricane. Do you think KW will be in the BCs T20 team in three years' time?

 

[Bahnz]

ODIs developed massively since the 80s in terms of the conceptual understanding of the game.

The same thing will happen in T20s and 200 will become the new 160.

Disagree with this. If you look at the evolution of T20 scoring rates, they've really been pretty stagnant in the decade since the format's inception despite significant innovation and experimentation in that time. With the exception of 2008, they've been hovering around 7.5 rpo every year - sometimes a bit higher and sometimes a bit lower. I think we're already very close to the limit of what can be consistently scored in 20 overs. Yes new batting strategies will evolve, but equally new bowling strategies will emerge to counter them.

 

[91Jmay]

That innings was just poorly constructed. It happens. I could link you tens of games where everyone went out slogging and that also lost because of that (Sri lanka at eden park anyone?).

The important stat for cake players isn't really strike rate, it's (to bastardise baseball terminology) off-strike percentage. You need someone who can get 1 run as often as possible if he's not getting boundaries.

Australia were 8 for 3 in that game. No way Clarke/Hussey could come out swinging.

 

[weldone]

10 overs to go
8 wickets in hand
83 runs required to win
The guy who scored 48 (30) from this point isn't who lost us the game. The spuds who scored 16 runs from the other 30 did.

Yes sure, but how about giving some credit to the Pakistani bowlers?

 

[Athlai]

Yes sure, but how about giving some credit to the Pakistani bowlers?

This is in response to the arguments ****ting on Kane as why we lost.

And in all honesty despite the quality of Pakistanis bowling, NZ should have won easily after the Munro/Williamson partnership. Anything less than Starc thunderbolts in those rare moments where everything clicks for him and he's the best limited overs bowler in the world by a mile, would not warrant 16 from 30 at Eden Park for 7 wickets.

 

[Kippax]

Spuds paid ten times more than KW to participate in the world's biggest domestic T20 comp, too. Come on spuds. Sharpen up.

 

[Hurricane]

I truly hope Hurricane is wrong, but my head tells me he's correct in that T20 will just be a line-up of sloggers.

Look at it like this. If Guptill and Williamson open in an ODI and are both still in at the 30-over mark, we'll start hitting from then. "The slog" now begins around the 30th over in ODIs if there are wickets in hand.

At the start of a T20 is just like that. It's exactly like being 30 overs into an ODI no wickets down because there are 20 overs left and you have 10 wickets in hand.

Therefore, if hitting with 20 overs and 10 wickets left makes sense in an ODI, it makes sense in a T20 which has the same mathematics.

Question for Hurricane. Do you think KW will be in the BCs T20 team in three years' time?

Yes because we won't, to RTBs point, have 6 batsman of Munro's calibre to pick instead. He won't be in the team after he is 30 but that will be his own decision..

 

[Kippax]

Is their any other keepers in NZ who are decent in T20?

Glenn Phillips will get his first crack as a keeper-bat in this format I think. A NZ U19 player with no T20 caps for Auckland atm though.

 

[Hurricane]

Disagree with this. If you look at the evolution of T20 scoring rates, they've really been pretty stagnant in the decade since the format's inception despite significant innovation and experimentation in that time. With the exception of 2008, they've been hovering around 7.5 rpo every year - sometimes a bit higher and sometimes a bit lower. I think we're already very close to the limit of what can be consistently scored in 20 overs. Yes new batting strategies will evolve, but equally new bowling strategies will emerge to counter them.

England just came off their best ODI series ever against us where they basically scored 400 every time. So even ODI scores will go up let alone T20 scores.

I haven't done the same trending analysis you have done - my observation is based on my knowledge of cricket. I see an awful lot of faffing about at the crease with players trying to accumulate runs rather than slogging. The accumulation vs slogging ratio will change in the future.
The biggest area of improvement I see is against spin where right now batsman make no effort to take them on (except poor Astle on Friday night).

 

[Bahnz]

England just came off their best ODI series ever against us where they basically scored 400 every time. So even ODI scores will go up let alone T20 scores.

I haven't done the same trending analysis you have done - my observation is based on my knowledge of cricket. I see an awful lot of faffing about at the crease with players trying to accumulate runs rather than slogging. The accumulation vs slogging ratio will change in the future.
The biggest area of improvement I see is against spin where right now batsman make no effort to take them on (except poor Astle on Friday night).

Yeah, but those ODI scores were fundamentally a result of the field-set rules where only 4 fielders were allowed outside the circle. It's been quite noticeable how few 350+ scores there have been since the change in rules which allowed 5 fielders outside the circle in the last 10 overs.

 

[Moss]

Astle has no business in a T20 team and I don't know what we learned from the exercise. Some of his good balls were hit for six. It was an unfair assignment.

After reflecting on last night's performance I think if we had Brendon we could beat anyone in the world. I think without him we are one batsman short.

Team for T20 world cup

1 - Guptil
2 - Ronchi (let him get a few sighters he is bottling it down the order)
3 - Munro
4 - Anderson
5 - Williamson (captain)
6 - Clarkson
7 - Hira (better T20 batsman than Santner)
8 - Bracewell
9 - Milne
10 - Henry
11 - Some other spinner e.g. AJ Patel (left armers have an advantage)

Taylor is cooked in this format.

Thought Boult looked ok from a rhythm perspective

No mention of Neesham anywhere in selection-related posts. Is he in the reckoning at this point? Would back him to do the floating role better than Ronchi.

Regarding the spinner I'd want NMac back because of his T20 record and experience in the subcontinent. He also fits the batting requirements you outlined.

While Friday's game was definitely a wake up call, it's possible that we're overthinking the T20 lineup. The likes of KW/Guptill/Taylor will have to bat in the top 4 (or 5 in Taylor's case) and fire anyway if NZ are to have any chance in the world T20. Anderson Elliott and the others simply need more game time and should get it in the next couple of months.

 

[Hurricane]

We will not make the semi finals at the tournament without Brendon. He was one of the better players in the world at the format.
Yes good points that Ross will take up a spot and simplify the selection decisions.
I will stay quiet on neesham as I have strong views.

 

[vandem]

Glenn Phillips will get his first crack as a keeper-bat in [T20] format I think. A NZ U19 player with no T20 caps for Auckland atm though.

IMHO Phillips or Siefert will battle for the limited over keeper spot over the next decade, but two questions are whether Ronchi can hold on for a couple of seasons until they are ready (answer = no) and whether the interim limited over keeper (Cachopa / Blundell / de Boorder) play well enough to keep out Phillips / Siefert until after the the next ODI World cup (answer = possibly).

 

[Kippax]

Cracked the can on Sodhi very early obvs. I could see that back-foot power being Hesson catnip, like Sodhi's bounce and big turn was.

 

[Kippax]

Pity Milne says he's lacking in a bit of rhythm. Back on his preferred clay at Seddon.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

New Zealand were without their best bowler - Tim Southee

lol

 

[Jezroy]

Well... We're bowling first. I wonder what WASP thinks a good score is? As that matters.