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***Official*** Pakistan in New Zealand - T20/ODI series - Jan 2016

cnerd123

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It might be clean, but there is scope for it to become bad. It's the way he loads up before releasing entering his final delivery stride. His arm is low and bent, so he has to put a lot of shoulder and core effort into the final pivot and release. And even then his arm isn't coming down straight; he maintains a bit of a bend in it.

All in all that's not bad in itself, and it's helping him gets some really good work on the ball, but it can lead to some bad habits when he gets tired.
 

smash84

The Tiger King


It might be clean, but there is scope for it to become bad. It's the way he loads up before releasing entering his final delivery stride. His arm is low and bent, so he has to put a lot of shoulder and core effort into the final pivot and release. And even then his arm isn't coming down straight; he maintains a bit of a bend in it.

All in all that's not bad in itself, and it's helping him gets some really good work on the ball, but it can lead to some bad habits when he gets tired.
I don't know. One of the deliveries he got a wicket on looked fishy. Which is what made me take notice
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Astle has no business in a T20 team and I don't know what we learned from the exercise. Some of his good balls were hit for six. It was an unfair assignment.

After reflecting on last night's performance I think if we had Brendon we could beat anyone in the world. I think without him we are one batsman short.

Team for T20 world cup

1 - Guptil
2 - Ronchi (let him get a few sighters he is bottling it down the order)
3 - Munro
4 - Anderson
5 - Williamson (captain)
6 - Clarkson
7 - Hira (better T20 batsman than Santner)
8 - Bracewell
9 - Milne
10 - Henry
11 - Some other spinner e.g. AJ Patel (left armers have an advantage)

Taylor is cooked in this format.

Thought Boult looked ok from a rhythm perspective
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Watching highlights. Williamson needs to learn to run. Probably was his call anyway but he is involved in so many run outs.
 
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Zinzan

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Astle has no business in a T20 team and I don't know what we learned from the exercise. Some of his good balls were hit for six. It was an unfair assignment.

After reflecting on last night's performance I think if we had Brendon we could beat anyone in the world. I think without him we are one batsman short.

Team for T20 world cup

1 - Guptil
2 - Ronchi (let him get a few sighters he is bottling it down the order)
3 - Munro
4 - Anderson
5 - Williamson (captain)
6 - Clarkson
7 - Hira (better T20 batsman than Santner)
8 - Bracewell
9 - Milne
10 - Henry
11 - Some other spinner e.g. AJ Patel (left armers have an advantage)

Taylor is cooked in this format.

Thought Boult looked ok from a rhythm perspective

Couldn't agree more about Tstle, but it's bizarre you'd want to drop Santner (whether you replace him with Hira up the order or not) and then search for some other spinner you're not even sure about yourself at no 11? :huh:

Especially odd after he went for 3.5 an over off his 4 with the next best NZ bowler being Henry's 7.75
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Couldn't agree more about Tstle, but it's bizarre you'd want to drop Santner (whether you replace him with Hira up the order or not) and then search for some other spinner you're not even sure about yourself at no 11? :huh:

Especially odd after he went for 3.5 an over off his 4 with the next best NZ bowler being Henry's 7.75
Doubly odd since you say you'd prefer a left-arm spinner.
I think his post touched borderline quintupletly odd.
I liked my post but I should have explained it better. I think there is place in a sub continental world cup for two spinners, one should be a front line spinner (which Santner is not) and one should be a bit of an all rounder and I would pick Hira for the all rounder.

I think that Santner at this stage does not think like a batsman and as such will not play a match winning inning with the bat for the black caps in the next year. In a rather more modest way he reminds me of Steve Waugh. We are selecting him as a long term prospect hoping he will grow into his role. Perhaps he will but I would let him develop at FC level and encourage ND to use him at number 5-6 by executive decree.

Yes he bowled well - so I concede you could make a very good case for his selection in the team. I am just trying to make some radical suggestions here to try to find a winning formula as when I looked at the batting line up last night before our inning started I couldn't count many batsman who I thought could contribute.

I think Kane is part of the solution - I think he just got surprised by their fielding tactics and didn't adjust very well on the night to counter them. He should have gone over the top against the spinner. He has the game to do it. He also needs to accept there is no role for him in the team as anchor man.

Guptil, Munro, and Anderson I expected big things from.

I had no hope of anyone else getting double digits at an SR of 140 - which was the SR we needed throughout.

I actually thought the most controversial thing I said was Ross is cooked. I fully expect Ross to be a stapel of the T20 team until he retires despite the fact he has jumped the shark in that format. He used to be awesome at one point.

Hira's bowling is as good if not better than Santner's. Hira's batting in a T20 context is vastly underrated. He is extremely effective from overs 16-20. As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts it is critical that you don't take 2 overs to get your eye in. Hira doesn't do that. He goes from ball number 2 or 3.

You can argue that if Santner is going to keep bowling like that then he deserves the specialist spinner's spot. I just don't think he is as good as a front line spinner.
 

Zinzan

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I liked my post but I should have explained it better. I think there is place in a sub continental world cup for two spinners, one should be a front line spinner (which Santner is not) and one should be a bit of an all rounder and I would pick Hira for the all rounder.
That theory is all well & good except this is NZ cricket we're talking about & if Santner isn't a specialist spinner in this country then I'd like to know who is.

Re: Hira, I'm not convinced he'd actually be any more likely to hit/clear the ropes with the bat than Santner at international T20 level, even if he is better at NZ domestic level, just one of those things I feel watching him. Rob Nicol syndrome.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
That theory is all well & good except this is NZ cricket we're talking about & if Santner isn't a specialist spinner in this country then I'd like to know who is.

Re: Hira, I'm not convinced he'd actually be any more likely to hit/clear the ropes with the bat than Santner at international T20 level, even if he is better at NZ domestic level, just one of those things I feel watching him. Rob Nicol syndrome.
Cricket Records | Georgie Pie Super Smash, 2015/16 | Records | Most runs | ESPN Cricinfo

I don't know how to run filter's on these. I would like to restrict the list to people with SRs over 140. If you aren't over 140 then you don't have a game designed for modern T20 cricket.

Hira actually finished 5th for most aggregrate runs amongst those with a SR above 140. The guy is a dirty ugly cross batted slogger. But he gets the job done. Colin Munro wouldn't find his way into an MCC text book either but who cares. I used to regard this format, T20, with disdain, but I have started to come around to it. The sport is in its infancy and we need careful selection tactics. Dirty disgusting sloggers have a place in T20 squads.

With regards to Santner and whether he is a front line spinner.
The others who did well were (regardless of which way they spin it) were Nethula, JS Patel (limited games), and Woodcock. Woodcock's numbers weren't compelling. Dirty Devcich was also there or thereabouts.
So yeah if you do accept that Hira should be one spinner then the other spinner position is JS Patel, vs Nethula, vs NMac vs Santner

JS Patel seems to be out of favour for turning down a tour. Nethula would get tonked. NMac has also been thrown on the dust heap. So yeah maybe you are right. I would go Santner ahead of Woodcock.
:)

I think last year we had more front like spinners kicking around - Marty Kain, AJ Patel, Bhupinder Singh, Nick Beard - they didn't show up this year.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Again, call me crazy, but I'd be putting a lot more importance on Santner's 4 overs 3/14 against useful subcontinent batsmen than I would Hira's domestic record.
Yes fair point. I guess I am discounting last night's perfomance as an outlier as I think I have seen a fair bit of him and it strikes me he needs to work on how many balls out of six he can land in good areas.
 

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