Player revolt in sa over quota system ??

[Oduodu]

Then I guess nothings really going to happen. Thanks or sharing that kyjweer-proteas.

 

[Marius]

Back on topic, the report was exclusive to an Afrikaans newspaper as far as i can tell, so there needs to be more sources to back it up, but where there is smoke there is fire. Firdosa Moonda is not likely to comment on it.

Kwota-rebellie | Netwerk24

(pop it into google translate)

Yup, you called it. Nada on Cricinfo about this.

 

[Marius]

Marius

You sure about the literacy ??

Adult literacy rate, population 15+ years, both ***es (%) | Data | Table

Adult literacy is about 95% now, was in the mid-80s in the 1990s.

 

[longranger]

Tough topic. Logic is usually thrown out of the window when there is political interference. Personally I think that quotas shouldn't exist, as it promotes identity over merit, but I understand the desire to make the game more appealing to the majority of the population, which is severely under-represented. My idea would be to introduce incentives (such as free camps around the country for poor kids), which is a better way for the Government to ensure social equality in the sport. Reserving spots for a particular race may lead to the team's overall quality declining and the sport actually becoming less attractive in the future is a distinct possibility.

How do South Africa's other national teams look? IIRC, the rugby team is almost all-white and the football team is almost all-black?

 

[Oduodu]

Marius

I stand by what I said except for the literacy thing. I was talking out of personal experience. I have people who teached in my family but they worked in private schools. Even then the teachers must cop the blame for everything that goes wrong. It often happens that they( my family) had to improvise and create their own systems to make things work. As it happens the local state schools saw what she (my sister) had done and copied into their own system (with no acknowledgment to my sister) of course the head of the private school got all the credit for it. So teachers in state schools more than likely has it worse and teachers there often leave their jobs because of the complete impossibility of doing it right. They must teach 40 - 50 children per class So I just feel that the average black kid still is getting the worst end of the stick. They can't even get to a point where they can understand how government is short changing them. Will the average black kid ever understand that if the standard of education doesn't go up to the point where we can build our own cars cellphones etc and sell them on the international market jobs will never be created, to do this there needs to be engineers that are properly educated - for every engineer so many technologists and then technicians and then vocationally trained semi skilled labor . At the core of this is the quality of maths being taught. More importantly is the agricultural sector where our food comes from. If education doesn't address these issues so that the average black can understand this by time they leave school they are at the very least mal - literate. Then they will never be able to distinguish what is really the core problem with regards to unemployment and apartheid is to blame. But after. 21 years the anc is Going back to text based education- they are finally realizing the importance of maths. When will the vast majority of our citizens stop seeing high standards as a racist thing and realize that is what makes high living standards possible ??

On the racism thing: if even after 21 years we have black university lecturers calling for a black hitler to come and wipe all the whites out. We have white woman going on social media calling the blacks at the beach in durban monkeys I start to wonder if anything will really change.

*sigh*

Like I said I can't blame people for feeling the way they do about apartheid but I think its going to be another 20 years before the vast majority will start thinking in terms of "south africans" and not"black and white"

 

[Oduodu]

Marius thanks for sharing the data . I will certainly look at it.

 

[Marius]

Marius

I stand by what I said except for the literacy thing. I was talking out of personal experience. I have people who teached in my family but they worked in private schools. Even then the teachers must cop the blame for everything that goes wrong. It often happens that they( my family) had to improvise and create their own systems to make things work. As it happens the local state schools saw what she (my sister) had done and copied into their own system (with no acknowledgment to my sister) of course the head of the private school got all the credit for it. So teachers in state schools more than likely has it worse and teachers there often leave their jobs because of the complete impossibility of doing it right. They must teach 40 - 50 children per class So I just feel that the average black kid still is getting the worst end of the stick. They can't even get to a point where they can understand how government is short changing them. Will the average black kid ever understand that if the standard of education doesn't go up to the point where we can build our own cars cellphones etc and sell them on the international market jobs will never be created, to do this there needs to be engineers that are properly educated - for every engineer so many technologists and then technicians and then vocationally trained semi skilled labor . At the core of this is the quality of maths being taught. More importantly is the agricultural sector where our food comes from. If education doesn't address these issues so that the average black can understand this by time they leave school they are at the very least mal - literate. Then they will never be able to distinguish what is really the core problem with regards to unemployment and apartheid is to blame. But after. 21 years the anc is Going back to text based education- they are finally realizing the importance of maths. When will the vast majority of our citizens stop seeing high standards as a racist thing and realize that is what makes high living standards possible ??

On the racism thing: if even after 21 years we have black university lecturers calling for a black hitler to come and wipe all the whites out. We have white woman going on social media calling the blacks at the beach in durban monkeys I start to wonder if anything will really change.

*sigh*

Like I said I can't blame people for feeling the way they do about apartheid but I think its going to be another 20 years before the vast majority will start thinking in terms of "south africans" and not"black and white"

Thanks for that post Oduodu.

I think us South Africans are still very far apart on lots of issues and having these sorts of interactions is only a good thing.

 

[kykweer.proteas]

The only answer is to improve the living conditions of the lower class... Not just give them more money (which is the only solution our politicians can think of) but to make the money they earn more valuable by strengthening the economy like india and china has done...

From there you give youngsters the choice... At this stage in south africa. Football is so "easy" that all kids need is a ball, talent, fitness and plenty of time to train, this can be done on any reasonably flat surface in the country.

Rugby, cricket and even athletics is intensely more competitive, expensive facilities for cricket, coaching and conditioning programs. You will often see, people with money participating in these sports on the top level and a very select few that get spotted at clinics...

Key is that you need to be able to give kids a choice and at this stage kids living far from cities are finding it tough economically be they black, indian, coloures and even white.

 

[Marius]

The only answer is to improve the living conditions of the lower class... Not just give them more money (which is the only solution our politicians can think of) but to make the money they earn more valuable by strengthening the economy like india and china has done...

From there you give youngsters the choice... At this stage in south africa. Football is so "easy" that all kids need is a ball, talent, fitness and plenty of time to train, this can be done on any reasonably flat surface in the country.

Rugby, cricket and even athletics is intensely more competitive, expensive facilities for cricket, coaching and conditioning programs. You will often see, people with money participating in these sports on the top level and a very select few that get spotted at clinics...

Key is that you need to be able to give kids a choice and at this stage kids living far from cities are finding it tough economically be they black, indian, coloures and even white.

There's a reason why football is the most popular game in the world - it's rule are simple and it's easy to play an impromptu game. Cricket you need some equipment and familiarity with the game. Also, to be really good, you need formal coaching.

And it's hardly as if all whites have access to amazing facilities and coaches - my old school is an old Model C school and is well resourced and often ranked one of the best schools in Gauteng. We have produced exactly one Test cricketer and that was in 1947. A handful of schools will produce our elite sportsmen and there's nothing really wrong with that to be honest.

 

[kykweer.proteas]

Well these days public schools in the "platteland" are really struggling... They barely have facilities anymore and afterschool coaching is pretty much non existant, unless the parents are willing to pay.

In kzn for example outside of dbn and pmb you have little chance of making an sa schools team on merit. And even those schools cosg at least R3k a month.

 

[kykweer.proteas]

There's a reason why football is the most popular game in the world - it's rule are simple and it's easy to play an impromptu game. Cricket you need some equipment and familiarity with the game. Also, to be really good, you need formal coaching.

And it's hardly as if all whites have access to amazing facilities and coaches - my old school is an old Model C school and is well resourced and often ranked one of the best schools in Gauteng. We have produced exactly one Test cricketer and that was in 1947. A handful of schools will produce our elite sportsmen and there's nothing really wrong with that to be honest.

Isnt that the entire ploblem though? By selecting players from elite schools you exclude the vast majority of the population.

 

[Marius]

Isnt that the entire ploblem though? By selecting players from elite schools you exclude the vast majority of the population.

What's your solution? We have a lottery to pick the Proteas?

'We need three guys from township schools, three guys from platteland schools, and only the other five can be from traditional schools.'

They're not picked because they went to those schools - they're picked because cricket talent is nurtured at those schools and they go on to become professional cricketers.

 

[kykweer.proteas]

What's your solution? We have a lottery to pick the Proteas?

'We need three guys from township schools, three guys from platteland schools, and only the other five can be from traditional schools.'

They're not picked because they went to those schools - they're picked because cricket talent is nurtured at those schools and they go on to become professional cricketers.

No im not suggesting a lottery... That is an extremely silly comment.

I am nkt oblivious to the fact that talent is nortured. Something has to give though because there is no way sport in this country can follow the same path as it does now. Some innovation has to be set in motion, because in a few years a lot of the talent being nortured at these schools in elite schools will be competing against SA for opposition countries.

 

[Marius]

No im not suggesting a lottery... That is an extremely silly comment.

I am nkt oblivious to the fact that talent is nortured. Something has to give though because there is no way sport in this country can follow the same path as it does now. Some innovation has to be set in motion, because in a few years a lot of the talent being nortured at these schools in elite schools will be competing against SA for opposition countries.

This isn't a uniquely South African problem - cricket talent in NZ and England, and to a lesser degree, Aus, all comes from a handful of schools and regions.

 

[social]

This isn't a uniquely South African problem - cricket talent in NZ and England, and to a lesser degree, Aus, all comes from a handful of schools and regions.

But they aren't discriminated against because of race, colour, etc so it's a relatively even playing field insofar as selection goes

The danger for SA cricket comes when it is no longer a meritocracy as that wont happen anytime soon in those other countries

 

[kykweer.proteas]

This isn't a uniquely South African problem - cricket talent in NZ and England, and to a lesser degree, Aus, all comes from a handful of schools and regions.

Our situation is incredibly unique.

 

[indiaholic]

This isn't a uniquely South African problem - cricket talent in NZ and England, and to a lesser degree, Aus, all comes from a handful of schools and regions.

It mattered even in India at least at the time I was in school.. There were a few places which players gravitated to due to the school's history or the school's administration being under somebody who was part of the cricket board. Have seen a couple of my friends who seemed to have some talent move to these schools.

 

[cnerd123]

Yea the talent source for pretty much every major cricket playing country (Associates too) tends to be comcentrated within a relatively small number of regions/schools. Its just a result of the unique nature of Cricket. You need a lot of equipment and resources to play it. Its not as easy to pick up or teach as a sport like football or even rugby.

 

[Marius]

But they aren't discriminated against because of race, colour, etc so it's a relatively even playing field insofar as selection goes

It is too in South Africa I think (at least far more than it was).

 

[cnerd123]

But they aren't discriminated against because of race, colour, etc so it's a relatively even playing field insofar as selection goes

The danger for SA cricket comes when it is no longer a meritocracy as that wont happen anytime soon in those other countries

I like how you just jumped into the convo and made a point completely unrelated to the conversation they were having. Its like you ignored the first 6 pages and missed the entire context of their conversation only to repeat something that has already been discussed.

Quality posting