BBC Sports Personality of the Year 2015

[sledger]

Besides, if it's a question of leaving it to the voters to decide, how is people voting for his removal through petition any less valid than leaving him in and people not voting for him at all? Is that not still a case of the voters deciding?

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, I agree, but I don't think what's happening here is at all linked to suggestions that controversial opinions ought to be made unlawful. The issue, so far as I can see it, is that the BBC, as a publicly-funded organisation, has put forward a total bigot as a candidate for a reward that is supposed to embody their values of pluralism and tolerance. It's not a question of whether his views are dire (which they clearly are) and ought to be banned outright, but one of whether it's appropriate for an organisation which receives state-funding to give a platform to someone of his character, and essentially promote them as a potential role-model.

Hmm is the reward meant to recognise that or sporting achievement?

I can see the line of thinking, especially the role model bit, but I'm not sure his nomination is an endorsement of his appalling views.

 

[GIMH]

Besides, if it's a question of leaving it to the voters to decide, how is people voting for his removal through petition any less valid than leaving him in and people not voting for him at all? Is that not still a case of the voters deciding?

Not at all? Unless you wanted to argue that people who wanted him in should set up a counter petition.

I'm just always more comfortable with leaving it for everyone to decide if they think it's an issue. I mean in all honesty I don't care if he gets removed, I just find the concept of a petition to remove someone from something like this a little stupid. I guess I'll never agree with everyone else and that's fair enough. But fundamentally I think a petition is saying 'we find his views offensive (rightly) so everyone else should too. Nobody should be allowed to vote for him' . Slippery slope imo

But I get what you are saying. It's the BBC and they should, theoretically, be whiter than white, and it's not the same as asking for him to be removed from, say, a sky vote.

 

[sledger]

Not at all? Unless you wanted to argue that people who wanted him in should set up a counter petition.

I'm just always more comfortable with leaving it for everyone to decide if they think it's an issue. I mean in all honesty I don't care if he gets removed, I just find the concept of a petition to remove someone from something like this a little stupid. I guess I'll never agree with everyone else and that's fair enough. But fundamentally I think a petition is saying 'we find his views offensive (rightly) so everyone else should too. Nobody should be allowed to vote for him' . Slippery slope imo

But I get what you are saying. It's the BBC and they should, theoretically, be whiter than white, and it's not the same as asking for him to be removed from, say, a sky vote.

Yeah, this is essentially the main thing I was thinking about.

I think everything else is more of a question about how you view the legitimacy of petitions more generally, not just in the present context. I just took your argument to essentially be "let the market decide the outcome", and for me if we're to take that approach there's very no real difference in effectively voting through a petition and voting in the actual competition itself.

 

[grecian]

Not sure the Beeb have ever said anything about this award being anything other than sporting. So not buying the state broadcaster thing at all. Independant panel and all that really.

Yet hey, Jono said he didn't know the ***** views, I very much did,and maybe many didn't, so maybe it's all for the good.

In the end he's pretty much jumped from a very fringe character in sport to a big sporting megastar overnight, so people clearly need to be told of his horribleness, so if this is the best way maybe it is a jolly good thing.

 

[Jono]

You're talking about an issue of morality though. People shouldn't be legislated against on their opinions. Far better for people to turn their back on them by choice.

That isn't what is happening here. Its like when the whole Duck Dynasty homophobia thing happened and people said it was a denial of his free speech. No it wasn't. He's allowed to air those views, people just petitioned that he commercially suffer as a result of that through boycott. No one put him in jail or fined him for that.

Exact same thing here.

 

[GIMH]

That isn't what is happening here. Its like when the whole Duck Dynasty homophobia thing happened and people said it was a denial of his free speech. No it wasn't. He's allowed to air those views, people just petitioned that he commercially suffer as a result of that through boycott. No one put him in jail or fined him for that.

Exact same thing here.

Yeah I guess what you're saying there is that the purpose of the petition is to raise awareness. So to that end I agree, but I'm presuming it was one of those petitions to parliament. Hence my point.

Btw, no idea what this duck dynasty thing is

 

[Jono]

Extremely successfull US reality TV show based on has some hick duck hunters. Main star came out with homophobic comments and A&E suspended the guy for a bit.

Unsurprisingly there was a revolt in the US and they brought him back. Sarah Palin etc. all defended him and said he was being denied his free speech.

 

[Uppercut]

Well yeah, but we're better than the US. You get kicked out of the Knobhead Party primary for NOT having Tyson Fury's opinions.

 

[social]

Fury is actually a very (street) smart guy who has caught onto the fact that any publicity is good publicity where boxing is concerned

I may be giving him too much credit but I reckon there's a fair chance that he doesn't believe half the **** that he comes out with but he does so knowing that it puts bums on seats

It's interesting to compare him with Anthony Joshua atm

Fury is playing the heel to the full extent whilst Joshua is Mr Nice Guy and you know its all a precursor to setting up what will be the biggest fight in British boxing history sometime in the next 18 months or so

Funny thing is that the heel is allegedly a committed family man whilst the good guy is a convicted dope dealer but that's boxing for you

 

[social]

Tyson Fury launches ringside tirade as heavyweight world champion tells critics to 'suck my b****' and blasts SPOTY petitioners as '50,000 w*******' | Daily Mail Online

 

[sledger]

Bloke really is odious.

 

[Jono]

Murray paying 1.80+ on Betfair. Value?

 

[sledger]

Not the worst shout.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Sounds like the kind of market that would be dominated by insider trading

 

[Lillian Thomson]

10 minutes in and I'm bored already.

 

[Pothas]

I have not actually watched it for years, what happens?

 

[Niall]

I have not actually watched it for years, what happens?

You spend 2 pondering, Gabby Logan, yay or nay. Yay for me.

A review of the year and spot light on all 10 nominated.

Its not really changed ever.

Swimming man and Rutherford have been profiled and interviewed on stage.

Gymnast talk now.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

You spend 2 pondering, Gabby Logan, yay or nay. Yay for me.

I'm not sure what you spend two of, but it's alarming that it takes you more than one.

 

[Niall]

I'm not sure what you spend two of, but it's alarming that it takes you more than one.

My bad.

You win.