What makes a good test pitch?

[harsh.ag]

His point has drifted from comparing seam and spin to bounce for pacers and bounce for spinners. The former serves him well, while the latter does not so much.

Yes, this pitch was difficult for the want of uneven bounce (though this happened far less than is being credited here, but was responsible for a few wickets like ABdV's and Faf's). Ultimately, this was a pitch where making runs was terribly difficult against spinners. It required lots of patience, lots of blocking, and good technique and feet movement. And after all that, the par score was 200-250.

That doesn't make it a poor pitch.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Putting massive spin on the ball is easy. Putting massive spin on the ball while having some clue over where it's going to land is what's difficult.

 

[cnerd123]

For real though, what are some actual examples of these pitches that are being referred to? What Test match in the last ten years has been played on a deck where any old quick could drag it down and automatically be threatening (and not get smashed to the fence if they mess it up)?

There hasn't been any pitch where any old spinner could drag one short and be threatening either. I just took offence when albi said 'a spinner dragging in short and being legitimately threatening' is a bad thing. He didn't specify he meant any part time trundler.!

If its a good pitch where high quality quicks can bang the ball in and cause troubles, then I think its a good pitch if a high quality spinner (one that gets massive revs) can dig it in short to cause batsmen troubles too.

 

[Spark]

There hasn't been any pitch where any old spinner could drag one short and be threatening either. I just took offence when albi said 'a spinner dragging in short and being legitimately threatening' is a bad thing. He didn't specify he meant any part time trundler.!

If its a good pitch where high quality quicks can bang the ball in and cause troubles, then I think its a good pitch if a high quality spinner (one that gets massive revs) can dig it in short to cause batsmen troubles too.

Oooooooooookay then. I honestly don't know how you'd prepare such a pitch without having it have ridiculous amounts of uneven bounce, but whatever floats your boat.

 

[cnerd123]

Putting massive spin on the ball is easy. Putting massive spin on the ball while having some clue over where it's going to land is what's difficult.

Yea. I disagree that doing that is any less difficult that bowling 140 and having any clue where its going to land too.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Yea. I disagree that doing that is any less difficult that bowling 140 and having any clue where its going to land too.

Go to any club training with a speed gun and see how many guys who can crack 120 let alone 140.

 

[harsh.ag]

Most pitches shortchange spinners. It's considered acceptable to shortchange spinners.

 

[harsh.ag]

Go to any club training with a speed gun and see how many guys who can crack 120 let alone 140.

Go to any club training and you will have young spinners being tonked about everywhere.

 

[cnerd123]

Oooooooooookay then. I honestly don't know how you'd prepare such a pitch without having it have ridiculous amounts of uneven bounce, but whatever floats your boat.

...Nagpur?

I mean, there were better ways to bowl on that pitch, but it allowed the proper spinners to bowl the odd short one to catch the batsmen off guard. It could either grip and turn and bounce, or stay low. Elgar, ABDV and Faf perished trying to be aggressive to short-ish deliveries (and in ABDV and Faf's case they were hard spun).

But that's being used as evidence of a poor pitch; that spinners could get wickets off short balls. And the reason it seems is because apparently bowling that way is 'easy'.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

yeah i'm done

 

[cnerd123]

Go to any club training and you will have young spinners being tonked about everywhere.

Yea I have only ever met one spinner who can actually spin the ball enough to get drift, and that's basically Vettori level of revs. Spinning the ball like Ashwin and Mishra is insane. And they get no credit for it because no one respects spinners.

 

[OverratedSanity]

***** went full Blocky here. I'm with him if he wants to have a righteous waah about the Nagpur pitch but his arguments here are weird.

 

[cnerd123]

Beh.

Mitch bangs a ball in short on a pacy wicket, it lifts, the batsmen gets out fending it, everyone praises Mitch because its ridiculously hard to bowl 150 clicks.

The Jaddu ball to ABDV. Spat, bounced, got him out fending. The pitch must be terrible. No one praises Jaddu for the fact that he is able to put that many revs on the ball at that speed. No one praises Jaddu even though there are literally more bowlers in the world who can replicate Mitch banging it in than there are bowlers who can replicate that Jaddu ball.

Spinners get no credit.

 

[Spark]

No one really cares about what Jadeja does on a massive turner for the same reason no one cares if a 125kmh trundler runs through a side on a greentop: he's ineffective on pitches which don't offer significant assistance.

This argument is so, so weird. No sane spinner deliberately bowls short balls as part of a wicket taking ploy; those are simply mistakes and bad bowling. Sometimes bad bowling gets wickets, especially when batsmen feel over-pressured to attack anything they perceive as slightly loose as they are when the good balls are as threatening as they are and they can't rotate the strike. The argument that spinners bowl short balls deliberately is, to put it very kindly, extremely weird.

 

[indiaholic]

Hmm.. ***** you seem to be advocating that short pitched bowling by spinners is a strategy rather than a mistake. Sounds weird and this is the first time I am hearing that argument.

 

[Spark]

Like I was actually with you--although amused and slightly concerned at how you kept going on and on about it--re: pitches that run on the first day but this tangent has been surreal, frankly.

 

[indiaholic]

Yeah I think I started the Nagpur is a decent pitch waah..

 

[OverratedSanity]

This argument is so, so weird. No sane spinner deliberately bowls short balls as part of a wicket taking ploy; those are simply mistakes and bad bowling. Sometimes bad bowling gets wickets, especially when batsmen feel over-pressured to attack anything they perceive as slightly loose as they are when the good balls are as threatening as they are and they can't rotate the strike. The argument that spinners bowl short balls deliberately is, to put it very kindly, extremely weird.

Nah, flat, slightly short flippers are a deadly weapon on pitches which have some uneven bounce.

 

[indiaholic]

Nah, flat, slightly short flippers are a deadly weapon on pitches which have some uneven bounce.

Oh flippers are for sure.. You expect a long hop and it goes under your bat. But that is a function of the bowler's skill. When the ball doesn't get off the pitch when you bowled a off break, it is a bit different, no?

 

[Spark]

[quoting doesn't work for me for some reason] Yeah I'll make an exception for those, but no one playing in Nagpur could bowl them. In fact I'm pretty sure the only player in world cricket atm who I've seen bowl a legitimately dangerous genuine flipper is TPC.