**Official** New Zealand in Australia 2015

[Athlai]

We wouldn't consider 17.66 'good' though

What's more. Change your filter to post-Ashes 2014 (ie starting point for the 'current' England team) or even just go with 2015 and we average 19+

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

so um yeah every team other than Oz and Saffa...

Awkward

 

[Athlai]

Santa showed he could keep pressure up. It's just a no-brainer that he should be bowling ahead of Craig. Is he going to spin us to a win on day 5? No, but he'll add a lot more to the attack than Craig by not releasing the pressure valve 98% of the time he comes on.

 

[GIMH]

Awkward

 

[straw man]

That's a narrow-minded way of looking at it though.

Doug Bracewell is a far better player than 11.63. That's the number a No.11 who bats close to that in domestic cricket should average. Mark Craig is potentially a domestic top 5-6 batsman without the other string to his bow. He looks assured at Test level and gets out really softly without fail. Tim Southee has not improved his batting one iota since he debuted. He puts no price on his wicket, and his approach to batting seems to pervade through the rest of the lower order as someone said. He bats one way in any situation which is completely wrong. And add to that, that he's very easily to set fields for by smart teams. Small grounds he might get away with it but never elsewhere. Trent Boult bats similarly, and is genuinely scared of the ball. This is a guy who scored 400 odd runs in a week of a one-day national tournament and has a great eye. Every No.11 on the planet should be able to hold an end up if required. He 99% of the time can't.

It completely changes our approach to batting when we're 7 down, or 8 at most. If a guy like Ross/Kane/Brendon/BJ are set, they have to go about their job differently knowing the guys at the other end aren't going to bat for them. Australia don't do that.

The bolded is the key bit. Absolutely Southee and the other bowlers can go out and try to slog quick runs 50% of the time and it's fine, but there currently isn't any situational awareness on when this is a bad idea for the team - when there's a set batsman flourishing at the other end, when someone is approaching a triple century(!), when they should just bat out the session and keep the opposition in the field, when their defense is up to the task and accumulation is an option, when they could just survive this spell from the opposition's top bowler and then it will be easier, when they are trying to save a test match for ****s sake.

Situational awareness ratings with the bat:
Southee: 0%
Boult: 20% - occasionally tries to block for a match-related reason. Soon enough he has a hoick. His defense is pretty terrible though.
Henry: 20% - has picked up the approach of the above two.
Bracewell: 60% - is trying
Craig: 30% - especially poor considering his defense is fairly decent and he comes in to bat with a recognised batsman at the other end.

 

[Athlai]

Awkward

You're absolutely right, the English tail is streets ahead of this effort.

Streets ahead.

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, not sure about this. England have a pretty good tail and doesn't Ashwin still bat 8 for India? The more frustrating thing was their batting strategy. Bout is a legit good 11 and got out slogging.

All in all, a really weird game. We made so many dumb plays, tactical errors and had an umpiring howler and yet still could've pulled it off in the end.

Yeah so much this. Boult showed in Perth that he can hang around if needed. Bracewell was finally middling it at the other end and there was the potential there to add another 10-20 runs given that the ball was old and the bowlers were starting to flag a bit. Instead he had a huge whoof at a straight outswinger with predictable results.

 

[Athlai]

The bolded is the key bit. Absolutely Southee and the other bowlers can go out and try to slog quick runs 50% of the time and it's fine, but there currently isn't any situational awareness on when this is a bad idea for the team - when there's a set batsman flourishing at the other end, when someone is approaching a triple century(!), when they should just bat out the session and keep the opposition in the field, when their defense is up to the task and accumulation is an option, when they could just survive this spell from the opposition's top bowler and then it will be easier, when they are trying to save a test match for ****s sake.

Situational awareness ratings with the bat:
Southee: 0%
Boult: 20% - occasionally tries to block for a match-related reason. Soon enough he has a hoick. His defense is pretty terrible though.
Henry: 20% - has picked up the approach of the above two.
Bracewell: 60% - is trying
Craig: 30% - especially poor considering his defense is fairly decent and he comes in to bat with a recognised batsman at the other end.

Not fair to say Southee has 0%, he has like 8%. Precisely enough to make it infuriating.

 

[Bahnz]

Santa showed he could keep pressure up. It's just a no-brainer that he should be bowling ahead of Craig. Is he going to spin us to a win on day 5? No, but he'll add a lot more to the attack than Craig by not releasing the pressure valve 98% of the time he comes on.

So Southee, Boult, Braces, Wags and Santa for the SRL series?

Damn, would've loved Wagners newish ball outswingers for Day 1, and his arsey bouncers for Lyon on day 2.

 

[GIMH]

You're absolutely right, the English tail is streets ahead of this effort.

Streets ahead.

Heh. Why don't you argue with what I said instead of making things up. Point clearly was that England wouldn't be 'happy' with the effort of the kiwi tail this series. Nowhere did I say it was better than NZ's, or any other, simply that it belongs in the argument. I'd rank it second.

But you carry on.

 

[Bahnz]

The bolded is the key bit. Absolutely Southee and the other bowlers can go out and try to slog quick runs 50% of the time and it's fine, but there currently isn't any situational awareness on when this is a bad idea for the team - when there's a set batsman flourishing at the other end, when someone is approaching a triple century(!), when they should just bat out the session and keep the opposition in the field, when their defense is up to the task and accumulation is an option, when they could just survive this spell from the opposition's top bowler and then it will be easier, when they are trying to save a test match for ****s sake.

Situational awareness ratings with the bat:
Southee: 0%
Boult: 20% - occasionally tries to block for a match-related reason. Soon enough he has a hoick. His defense is pretty terrible though.
Henry: 20% - has picked up the approach of the above two.
Bracewell: 60% - is trying
Craig: 30% - especially poor considering his defense is fairly decent and he comes in to bat with a recognised batsman at the other end.

To play devil's advocate, Bracewell came out and started smashing it pretty much from ball one and it worked a treat. Admittedly, he has a much better technical base to do that but I'm not sure whether we would've scored more runs if he'd batted properly.

 

[straw man]

Anyway Hazelwood and Starc will be a major handful on the return leg. Still gutted that's only a two test mini-series.

 

[Athlai]

Heh. Why don't you argue with what I said instead of making things up. Point clearly was that England wouldn't be 'happy' with the effort of the kiwi tail this series. Nowhere did I say it was better than NZ's, or any other, simply that it belongs in the argument. I'd rank it second.

But you carry on.

England would still be happy with 17. I don't think averaging 19 for a season or so changes the fact over the last 5 or so years that you have had a middling tail. 17 wouldn't be a bad series for England. I'm in no way changing my opinion on that. This is a comment on Kiwaaahs wanting so much more from NZ.

 

[Athlai]

So Southee, Boult, Braces, Wags and Santa for the SRL series?

Damn, would've loved Wagners newish ball outswingers for Day 1, and his arsey bouncers for Lyon on day 2.

Yeah I'd back that against SRL. Giving Wags and Dougeh the chance to have a proper fight for 3rd seamer would be a good call too.

 

[straw man]

To play devil's advocate, Bracewell came out and started smashing it pretty much from ball one and it worked a treat. Admittedly, he has a much better technical base to do that but I'm not sure whether we would've scored more runs if he'd batted properly.

It still seems more like a 'this is the way to maximise my output for the team' approach rather than 'cbf thinking about this gonna have a hit'.

 

[adub]

Anyway Hazelwood and Starc will be a major handful on the return leg. Still gutted that's only a two test mini-series.

and don't be surprised if Pattinson is also there and tears you to pieces.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah, not sure about this. England have a pretty good tail and doesn't Ashwin still bat 8 for India?

Ashwin actually batted ten for India in a game recently.

 

[Prince EWS]

Santa showed he could keep pressure up. It's just a no-brainer that he should be bowling ahead of Craig. Is he going to spin us to a win on day 5? No, but he'll add a lot more to the attack than Craig by not releasing the pressure valve 98% of the time he comes on.

I'd definitely still be playing Craig on grounds where spin is a serious threat throughout, but Santner is probably a better pick at this stage at home. Thinking about it, the grounds I'd play Craig on would more or less be the grounds the selectors would probably want two spinners anyway, so I think Santner has kind of got a lock on a place now. The only exception to that would be a couple of the English grounds I guess where you'd want an attacking spinner but you'd still want four seam options.

 

[Skyliner]

Santa showed he could keep pressure up. It's just a no-brainer that he should be bowling ahead of Craig. Is he going to spin us to a win on day 5? No, but he'll add a lot more to the attack than Craig by not releasing the pressure valve 98% of the time he comes on.

Baz is supposed to be a gambler. Accordingly Baz should know when to hold em. But there is a flip side to that coin. He also should know when to fold em. Moreover, he should also know when to walk away, and also know when to run. His reluctance to abandon a plan, and to acknowledge that defence can be a form of attack, is his biggest weakness as a captain. Simply denying the opposition runs can work in your favour. Simply occupying the crease can work in your favour. In each example, you are going to force the opposition to do something they don't want to do in order to resolve the impasse.

 

[straw man]

and don't be surprised if Pattinson is also there and tears you to pieces.

I can't see him being more of a threat than Hazlewood in NZ conditions

 

[Athlai]

I'd definitely still be playing Craig on grounds where spin is a serious threat throughout, but Santner is probably a better pick at this stage at home. Thinking about it, the grounds I'd play Craig on would more or less be the grounds the selectors would probably want two spinners anyway, so I think Santner has kind of got a lock on a place now. The only exception to that would be a couple of the English grounds I guess where you'd want an attacking spinner but you'd still want four seam options.

Id be fine seeing Craig or Sodhi come in when conditions suit. They just almost never do.