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***Official*** South Africa in India 2015

G.I.Joe

International Coach
Nothing has been 'disproved'. I am not your mum either who will tell your pitch is a garden of roses even when it is a pit of cowdung.
Of course it's been disproved. It's been 3 days and you still can't present a case for lottery deliveries taking wickets instead of good old fashioned turn and bounce and poor batting technique. All you're doing is hanging on to nebulous concepts that don't apply here.
 
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Shri

Mr. Glass
Ok this is unfair. You are just going to dismiss every former player who has a different view as 'so called expert' or having an 'agenda' but Gavaskar is fine because he did not criticise the pitch. Gavaskar is not a so called expert but Akram is.
Yeah a batsman who was good against spin is a better judge than a guy who neither bowled spin nor was a good batsman against spin. Tough to comprehend, I know.
 
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Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Of course it's been disproved. It's been 3 days and you still can't present a case for a lottery deliveries taking wickets instead of good old fashioned turn and bounce and poor batting technique. All you're doing is hanging on to nebulous concepts that don't apply here.
Haha. I have explained in detail and of course you will brush them because they don't follow your narrative. You are the one caught with your pants down, not me.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Yeah a batsman who was good against spin is a better judge than a guy who neither bowled spin nor was a good batsman against spin. Tough to comprehend, I know.
Maybe because they have played cricket on those wickets instead of accused people of hearing cricket on the radio without knowing ****.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah a batsman who was good against spin is a better judge than a guy who neither bowled spin nor was a good batsman against spin. Tough to comprehend, I know.
So a BCCI stooge and master troll is a better judge than arguably the game's greatest ever bowler and someone that slaughtered Harby at his best?

You have lost it
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
Haha. I have explained in detail and of course you will brush them because they don't follow your narrative. You are the one caught with your pants down, not me.
Please do link me to these non-existent posts of yours. I await with bated breath.
 

cnerd123

likes this
Ok this is unfair. You are just going to dismiss every former player who has a different view as 'so called expert' or having an 'agenda' but Gavaskar is fine because he did not criticise the pitch. Gavaskar is not a so called expert but Akram is.
Gavaskar holds more creditability, but given he is a BCCI shrill now that's probably not true.

In either case, no one has called the pitch dangerous, the tiny minority of people watching this game would have called it boring, and no one (not even the scorecard) will deny that the best performers in this game were also the most skilful with regards to the conditions.

Good point about Amla and ABDV - Amla has been in dire form since the WC, yet produced two of SA's best knocks on this tour. ABDV got a good ball and was brilliantly set up and dismissed by Ashwin - he still has the highest score for a SA batsman in this series and was also their best performer in the first test.

So overall, yea. The best players have done the best. The better side has won. No one is hurt. If low-scoring, spin dominated cricket is poor for you (not directed at you BW, just a general statement) then these are poor pitches. But in that case I have to question how much of a cricket fan you really are if you were unable to enjoy this game.
 

Daemon

Request Your Custom Title Now!
to be fair, *****'s argument against former players isn't right imo.

that said, there's no reason to believe why they can't be wrong. ex players have been wrong loads of times.
 

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah a batsman who was good against spin is a better judge than a guy who neither bowled spin nor was a good batsman against spin. Tough to comprehend, I know.
Right. In that case you, ***** and pretty much everyone else on this forum is a 'so called expert' because we neither bowled spin, nor were we a good batsman against spin, and guess what, neither did we bowl swing or reverse swing or fast. Only people who have mastered specific disciplines is entitled to speak about that.
So Wasim can't speak about a turning track
I am assuming that Gavaskar can't speak about a green top or reverse swing?
Kumble can only speak about leg spin bowling and nothing else

Why does Bhogle get to speak? What did he master?


A veteran of 104 tests is not a so called expert, and he doesn't have to play spin well to express an opinion about the state of cricket.
 

OverratedSanity

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I frankly cant understand how people are ignoring the advantage of the toss. It is not rocket science, the team batting when the pitch is obviously at its "easist". Or were people running on the pitch before the match to create footmarks ...
Pray tell how the pitch deteriorated so rapidly at the beginning of day 2 that SA could barely manage a third of India's first innings total. Glad to listen.

I'm willing to accept, and in fact, share the following criticisms of the pitch:

1) That the pitch helped spin so much that even part timers were able to be far more threatening than their actual quality should allow them to

2) There was some inconsistent turn and bounce

3) It was extremely difficult to get set and the bat-ball balance was titled heavily in favour of the ball

However, the following are completely unsubstantiated and flat out wrong conclusions about the pitch and the match:

1) That the only way to play was to slog and that patient grafting would get you nowhere. Nonsense. Sure, you need to be positive but the fact that people found it possible to defend shots like Faf's in the first innings by blaming the pitch just blew my mind.

2) That the toss won India the match and guaranteed SA a defeat. No. South Africa collapsed like a heap on day 2 of the match. The pitch behaved pretty similarly throughout all 3 days. Amla and Faf managed to scrap together a good partnership in the 4th innings when the pitch was supposed to crumble into martian dust. If they'd batted half as well on day 2 and hadn't thrown their wickets away like complete numpties, SA would've been neck and neck with India.

So, no, the toss didn't screw SA. SA screwed SA.

3) That the pitch made for a match which wasn't entertaining. Nope. Was lovely to watch imo. And again, would've been a wonderfully close, tight game if SA hadn't batted like idiots on day 2.

That is all. Continue your ****fight but I've laid everything out here for both sides.
 

OverratedSanity

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I don't hold any of Hayden, Gavaskar, or Akram's views as gospel. The fact that they agree with your view isn't evidence of either side's opinion being right.
 

cnerd123

likes this
Basically all the SA fans and Social are just having a moan because SA just got thrashed in India on turning decks by Indian spinners and they can't accept it and so wanna call it unfair and poor and throw their toys out of the pram.

To quote Dan:

Dem
 

cnerd123

likes this
And also, Pratters doesn't understand what the words Lottery and Unplayable means. He just thinks because it's a low scoring game, it's a poor pitch. Which the rest of us disagree because we all love watching Ashwin and Jaddu beast it like any good cricket fan should.

Aight, I'm done with this. On to the third test!
 

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
Gavaskar holds more creditability, but given he is a BCCI shrill now that's probably not true.

In either case, no one has called the pitch dangerous, the tiny minority of people watching this game would have called it boring, and no one (not even the scorecard) will deny that the best performers in this game were also the most skilful with regards to the conditions.

Good point about Amla and ABDV - Amla has been in dire form since the WC, yet produced two of SA's best knocks on this tour. ABDV got a good ball and was brilliantly set up and dismissed by Ashwin - he still has the highest score for a SA batsman in this series and was also their best performer in the first test.

So overall, yea. The best players have done the best. The better side has won. No one is hurt. If low-scoring, spin dominated cricket is poor for you (not directed at you BW, just a general statement) then these are poor pitches. But in that case I have to question how much of a cricket fan you really are if you were unable to enjoy this game.
Yeah this is not a dangerous pitch by any means. Nor was it determined by the toss. As I said earlier, South Africa would have more than likely folded for 79 even if they had won the toss and batted first.

Personally I don't have a problem with low scoring games as I prefer wickets to runs in most cases (unless it's some specific batsmen)

Having said that though, I do acknowledge that this is a personal preference, and when you have the series that we have just had, 3 games in and not a single century yet having so many of the best and top ranked batsmen in the world playing for both sides, I fully expect eyebrows to be raised and questions to be asked.

If people are getting upset at any criticism or any questions asked and getting defensive, then a public forum is probably not the right place. I don't have a problem with this pitch in particular but I fully understand where a lot of the criticism and questions are coming from, whether from 'so called experts' or other fans on this forum (including SA fans)

I think I would be great disappointed if my team was ranked number 1, toured another country and lost the series like this. Any cricket fan would be disappointed including Indian fans.
I think this is what people like you, Joe and others who are getting furious need to understand as well.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Basically all the SA fans and Social are just having a moan because SA just got thrashed in India on turning decks by Indian spinners and they can't accept it and so wanna call it unfair and poor and throw their toys out of the pram.

To quote Dan:

Dem
OMG, why the **** would I care who won or lost?

I AM AUSTRALIAN
 

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