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***Official*** South Africa in India 2015

aussie

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Dan said:
...why would they pick an opener when they didn't need an opener at that point?

Elgar, Virus, Amla, du Plessis, de Villiers, van Zyl, <GAP> was your top 7, with Rossouw, Duminy and de Kock all on the shelf.

Sure, they could have shuffled Elgar back down to #7, but why do that when you've just lost Graeme Smith (and will inevitably soon lose Petersen) and hence need a long-term option up the top? You could make a strong claim for Cook or Puttick getting the spot that Petersen vacated with his retirement, but in the actual situation that the South African selectors were faced with, picking a 35-year-old opener for a vacancy at #7 would have been weird to say the least.

Bavuma had made consistent runs in the Sunfoil Series over the past few years before he was picked. He wasn't brilliant -- heck, he was nowhere near Test standard -- but when it comes to your 10th best specialist batsman you can't expect Bradman 2.0.

I'm shamelessly copying and pasting this from a discussion I've had previously, but here are the Sunfoil lists from the previous few years. I've red-bolded the viable options.

Top 10 Sunfoil Series Run Scorers for 2014/15
1. RE van der Merwe -- shunt-y all-rounder with no business batting top 6 in Tests
2. RS Second -- who even is this bloke?
3. F Berhardien -- yeah ok, they could have picked him over Bavuma. But he sucks
4. CA Ingram -- just took up a Kolpak deal in England
5. TL Tsolekile -- they wanted a batsman, not a journeyman 'keeper
6. GL Cloete -- averaging 34 for the season and 31 for his career
7. RR Hendricks -- averaging 33 for the season and 34 for the career and is an opener
8. TB de Bruyn -- could be a gun, but 8 FC games in South Africa (debuting in Feb) does not a Test debut make.
9. PJ van Biljon -- looks like a bit of a shunt to me
10. HG Kuhn -- journeyman alert

Top 10 Sunfoil Series Run Scorers for 2013/14
1. S van Zyl -- in the team
2. JL Ontong -- do you really want him in the team?
3. DJ White -- opener, and doesn't seem to be that great, even if he does have potential
4. DJ van Wyk -- yeah, no
5. AG Puttick -- journeyman alert + opener
6. T Bavuma -- young guy with some runs and potential
7. SC Cook -- journeyman alert + opener
8. RR Rossouw -- recovering from injury
9. AG Prince -- retired
10. ML Price -- averaged <35, and he's 33 years old.

2012/13
1. ND McKenzie -- retired
2. S van Zyl -- in the team
3. DJ Jacobs -- no, just no.
4. Q de Kock -- injured
5. T Bavuma -- in fairness he only averaged 31 here, so it isn't especially impressive, but there aren't many viable options in this list
6. VN van Jaarsveld -- regressive step
7. AJA Gray -- not much of an option when the vacancy actually occurred
8. SC Cook -- opener
9. RE van der Merwe -- no.
10. D Smit -- 'keeper who is now struggling to hold a Franchise spot


So yeah, ok, they could have picked Berhardien for Test cricket. But I certainly think Berhardien's ceiling in red-ball cricket is lower than Bavuma's. They could have debuted Hendricks at 7 as a precursor to him getting the opening spot soon to be vacated by Virus -- that actually might have been a decent call. Or they could have taken a punt on de Bruyn, but realistically there's no reason to make that call so early.

They could also have taken a 'keeper so AB de Villiers didn't have to do it, but for whatever reason decided that wasn't the team balance they want. Or they could have rewarded a journeyman opener for their domestic service by chucking them at 7.

Bavuma was young. Bavuma had consistent, if not awe-inspiring, Franchise performances in the previous years. Bavuma had SA-A runs. Bavuma had potential. For a guy who was primarily going to be an experience-gaining tourist and might get a match here or there if injuries and team balance deem it necessary, Bavuma or Hendricks were the only guys who really fit the criteria.

Was it a clear-cut decision where Bavuma was definitively the next best batsman available? No. Was it a selection discussion that he was in on merit? Yes, definitely.

To put it this way, last time I had this discussion the other bloke came in aggressively championing Justin Ontong for Bavuma's place. I think that speaks volumes -- Justin Ontong.
Click to expand...
They did need an opener at that point. SA finally ran out a patience with Alviro P after that West Indies home series 2014/15. Van Zyl was promoted to open only during the recent BANG series, after debuting in that same WI series as a middle-order bat. He made all his runs in domestic cricket & A-team cricket a middle order bat too.

Its only at start of current SA domestic season, CSA maybe had discussions with his franchise to bat him as an opener. Cook was leading run scorer at end of 2014/15 season & at age 32 is a very real option right now - Cricket Records | Records | Sunfoil Series, 2014/15 | Most runs | ESPN Cricinfo

Bavuma was fine to give him a game vs WI at the time, but since now that Duminy is back, Van Zyl is around plus Rossouw - so is Bavuma is not a real option for a middle-order spot. The opening now is a partner for Elgar & Cook is the natural replacement (Puttick as a thought).
 
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D

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
aussie said:
They did need an opener at that point. SA finally ran out a patience with Alviro P after that West Indies home series 2014/15. Van Zyl was promoted to open only during the recent BANG series, after debuting in that same WI series as a middle-order bat. He made all his runs in domestic cricket & A-team cricket a middle order bat too.

Its only at start of current SA domestic season, CSA maybe had discussions with his franchise to bat him as an opener. Cook was leading run scorer at end of 2014/15 season & at age 32 is a very real option right now - Cricket Records | Records | Sunfoil Series, 2014/15 | Most runs | ESPN Cricinfo

Bavuma was fine to give him a game vs WI at the time, but since now that Duminy is back, Van Zyl is around plus Rossouw - so is Bavuma is not a real option for a middle-order spot. The opening now is a partner for Elgar & Cook is the natural replacement (Puttick as a thought).
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This has literally nothing to do with the Bavuma selection.
 
Daemon

Daemon

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Yeah, it's a terrible idea and this isn't the first time someone's got injured because of it.
 
StephenZA

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Shri said:
Another 'injury' before a test expected to not assist seamers. Just Philander things. WACoward.
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Gawd I hate these baseless f*ck comments, even if it just for lol`s. It like reading cricinfo comment section.... Particularly, considering he was the best seamer in the last match.
 
Marius

Marius

International Debutant
If Philander's out that messes up the balance of the team a bit - he's the best batsman of the three seamers, and only him and Harmer can probably bat eight or higher.

Some selection dilemmas ahead I think.

I suppose if Duminy is fit that solves one headache I suppose, he'll go in at six, and Vilas will drop down a spot. But then will SA still play two spinners? I don't think so, but will it be Harmer or Tahir? I think I lean Harmer.

So, my team (assuming Philander is out) is:

Van Zyl
Elgar
Faf
Amla
AB
Duminy
Vilas
Harmer
Steyn
Rabada
Morkel
 
morgieb

morgieb

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Marius said:
If Philander's out that messes up the balance of the team a bit - he's the best batsman of the three seamers, and only him and Harmer can probably bat eight or higher.

Some selection dilemmas ahead I think.

I suppose if Duminy is fit that solves one headache I suppose, he'll go in at six, and Vilas will drop down a spot. But then will SA still play two spinners? I don't think so, but will it be Harmer or Tahir? I think I lean Harmer.

So, my team (assuming Philander is out) is:

Van Zyl
Elgar
Faf
Amla
AB
Duminy
Vilas
Harmer
Steyn
Rabada
Morkel
Click to expand...
Isn't Steyn out of the next Test too?
 
StephenZA

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Marius said:
If Philander's out that messes up the balance of the team a bit - he's the best batsman of the three seamers, and only him and Harmer can probably bat eight or higher.

Some selection dilemmas ahead I think.

I suppose if Duminy is fit that solves one headache I suppose, he'll go in at six, and Vilas will drop down a spot. But then will SA still play two spinners? I don't think so, but will it be Harmer or Tahir? I think I lean Harmer.

So, my team (assuming Philander is out) is:

Van Zyl
Elgar
Faf
Amla
AB
Duminy
Vilas
Harmer
Steyn
Rabada
Morkel
Click to expand...
Assuming Steyn not out as well! And considering Duminy and Harmer both bowl off-break. Tahir might get picked for variation in attack.
 
Marius

Marius

International Debutant
If Steyn is out too, we are in the dwang, as we say here in SA. Rabada and Morkel are both good, but if they're our only two seamers we're not looking good.

I get the point about Harmer and Duminy both being offies, but still not sure Tahir deserves to be our no.1 Test spinner. I thought Harmer bowled nicely in the last Test, and he certainly gives less away than Tahir. The only place where Tahir is better than Harmer in Tests is getting rid of tailenders quickly.
 
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