*Official* Tennis Thread

[Cabinet96]

Didn't win a tournament on clay though. Djokovic, even in 2011, won 2 of the 3 clay tournaments he played, both beating peak Rafa in a final.

 

[Jono]

but novak was incredibly consistent in slams (getting to the semis consistently and even some finals) well before he started winning them in bunches...none of these guys have come even close to showing that...we cannot compare what he was then to what these new "stars" are doing now...dimitrov's whole attitude earlier this year after he broke up with sharapova was that the relationship was what was holding him back from realizing his potential...well everyone is still waiting...

yes I agree.

 

[Anil]

Didn't win a tournament on clay though. Djokovic, even in 2011, won 2 of the 3 clay tournaments he played, both beating peak Rafa in a final.

it's not like he sucked on clay that year...he played 3 tournaments, reached the finals of all 3 (including roland garros) and lost to y-k-w in all 3, the rome final especially was spectacular...now that was peak nadal, not 2011, in fact after his shock loss in the 2009 quarters, he wasn't the same invincible player on clay, his extreme physical style of play was also starting to catch up with him...it's just that he was so much better than everyone on the surface that he didn't need to be at his peak to win almost all the time...i agree that djokovic is a better player on clay than federer and is the 2nd best player on clay this generation overall but i don't think federer's winless clay season in 2006 diminishes his accomplishments that year any...

 

[Cabinet96]

Meh, did he ever actually lose to non Djokovic people on clay after from 2010-2014? I know he didn't in 2011 or 2013. It's basically impossible to say whether he regressed as a clay player or just hadn't faced a genuine threat before.

 

[morgieb]

Meh, did he ever actually lose to non Djokovic people on clay after from 2010-2014? I know he didn't in 2011 or 2013. It's basically impossible to say whether he regressed as a clay player or just hadn't faced a genuine threat before.

Definitely started losing to non-Djokovic people on clay in the last 18 months IIRC. 2011 was down to Djokovic GOATing, 2012-13 Nadal was still clearly numero uno on clay.

Definitely feel like his level went down on clay after his knee injury in 2012. But before then he was still ****ing gun.

 

[morgieb]

A 3 slam year is nothing to sniff obvious at but this year just doesn't have the same feel of dominance that other out of this world years do. Competition for Djokovic is as weak as I can remember. No doubt he's been gun but I can't rate this year as high as several other big gun years in the past.

 

[Jono]

several other big gun years? Like which ones?

 

[morgieb]

several other big gun years? Like which ones?

Fed 04-07, Nadal 2010 (though I personally prefer his 08), Djokovic 2011, just to name some recent ones.

 

[Jono]

Why is Fed 04 and 07 better? He only won 2 Slams in 04, and you can't make the competition point that year as there was no Nadal. And in 2007 he lost twice to Guillermo Cañas and once to Volandri in a short period.

 

[The Sean]

Fed won three slams in '04, though you're right of course that it was pre-Nadal.

 

[Jono]

Sorry meant 05.

Fed 06, Nadal 10 and Novak 11 and 15 are all pretty close.

I think Novak '11 shades it because Nadal was peak and just being beaten, Fed and Murray were very very good.

 

[morgieb]

Why is Fed 04 and 07 better? He only won 2 Slams in 04, and you can't make the competition point that year as there was no Nadal. And in 2007 he lost twice to Guillermo Cañas and once to Volandri in a short period.

05 did have Nadal

It also had Safin and Nalbandian GOATing in two of his three other losses.

And it's hard to really care that much about Masters. Yeah they're important, but at the biggest tournaments Federer in 2007 and Djokovic this year have been identical....it's just that Nadal 07 > Federer 15 and Djokovic 07 > Murray 15 IMO.

I dunno, I just do not rate the current depth in tennis at all. None of Murray, Federer and Nadal are what they were (Murray's close but I still don't think he's up to his 2008-12 standard, plus he can never seem to play well against Djokovic or Federer these days), Del Potro is for all intents and purposes done, Berdych and Ferrer **** the bed whenever they play someone good, Tsonga seems to only play well in 2-3 tournaments a year, and the next generation isn't of the same class as Nadal's/Djokovic's generation, and the generation after that is still very raw.

Even pre-Nadal while you didn't have as many ATG's....the second tier was quite a lot better IMO.

 

[Cabinet96]

Djokovic 07 > Murray 15? Nah, come on.

 

[Jono]

And it's hard to really care that much about Masters. Yeah they're important, but at the biggest tournaments Federer in 2007 and Djokovic this year have been identical....

Right, so we're not even talking about the same thing. You're talking about 4 tournaments, we're talking about a full year.

If you didn't want to debate the whole year don't get why you started to then?

 

[grecian]

Maria doing what Maria does, oh gawd I've missed her

 

[Jono]

Maria doing what Maria does, oh gawd I've missed her

Pretty incredible if she beats Rada considering she hasn't played a full match since Wimbledon.

 

[grecian]

Pretty incredible if she beats Rada considering she hasn't played a full match since Wimbledon.

She's played really well too, and yeah there's been lots of unforced, but aren't there always., plenty of winners and more variety then normal too. Aga was playing really well too, only unraveled in this final set.

Umm bit of a blip here though......

 

[Jono]

Got the win.

So random how the yanks Steve Johnson and Jack Sock are suddenly really competitive.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Well done extremely injured Porsche saleswoman.

 

[grecian]

Well done extremely injured Porsche saleswoman.

You really don't like her do you? Do you post on Tennis Forum? As this type of sourness and unwillingness to give anyone praise is pretty much common there.

Anyway: