The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[The Battlers Prince]

Allan Border was good in the slips, but was such a solid fielder everywhere he wasn't in there as much as others on this list.

 

[JBMAC]

Not sure if I have done this before, but wrote a post in another thread regarding Sobers and Kallis and was thinking how many genuine top tier batsmen were also top tier slip fielders.

Off the top of my head and in some order of combined skill.

Garry Sobers
Greg Chappell
Wally Hammond
Brian Lara
Ricky Ponting
Barry Richards

A.B. de Villiers
Jaques Kallis
Everton Weekes
Bobby Simpson
Neil Harvey
Clive Lloyd
Bruce Mitchell
Viv Richards
Matthew Hayden
Rahul Dravid

Who am I forgetting who was legitimately great in both fields. Who should I have left out?

You have left out Two of the greatest slippers of all time.

Colin Cowdrey and Mark Taylor

 

[mr_mister]

maybe he didnt consider Tubby top tier with the bat. People often praise Mark but I found Steve nearly as good in the field

 

[watson]

Frank Woolley was also a great slips fielder.

 

[kyear2]

You have left out Two of the greatest slippers of all time.

Colin Cowdrey and Mark Taylor

They were, I just don't consider either to be top tier ATG batsmen, or even the tier below that.

 

[kyear2]

Playing around with this team in my head.

XI

Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Don Bradman
Brian Lara
Viv Richards
Garry Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne

 

[honestbharani]

#intent XI???


Batting all the way down to 11 too... I m sure Warnie will be stoked to bat at jack for you..

 

[Flametree]

On the subject of wicket-keepers I've often wondered about Billy Murdoch, whose batting average of 30+ was miles ahead of keepers of his time (in fact, would it be the highest of any Australian keeper for 100 years? Wayne Phillips maybe just ahead?). I understand he played often as batsman alone while Blackham kept wicket so assumed he wasn't regarded as much of a keeper. But his obituary on Cricinfo includes this gem :

So great was his reputation as a wicketkeeper in his young days that Spofforth declined to play in the first big match against James Lillywhite's team in 1877 because Blackham had been chosen in preference. In the light of after events this scarcely seems credible, but it is strictly true.

So it seems he should be in contention for any ATG teams - a keeper who was just about the best batsman in his side, and regarded at least on a par with one of the all time great keepers.

 

[morgieb]

wrt the lefties XI, how many of them batted and bowled with their left hand? I can think of Lawry, Border and Sobers out of the batsmen. Who else?

 

[OverratedSanity]

wrt the lefties XI, how many of them batted and bowled with their left hand? I can think of Lawry, Border and Sobers out of the batsmen. Who else?

Davidson if you're counting the bowlers too.

 

[kyear2]

#intent XI???


Batting all the way down to 11 too... I m sure Warnie will be stoked to bat at jack for you..

Balanced XI. Everyone in the team, especially after the top 3, contributes in at least 2 disciplines without weakening the team.

Akram in because of his left handed variety and because he was arguably the best old ball bowler ever and why have 3 new ball specialist when only 2 bowlers will use it. Also useful with the bat. Plus he made both Wisden's and cricinfo's All Time XI's.

Hadlee over McGrath, though I belive McGrath was the better bowler, Hadlee isn't far behind and strengthens the tail.

Lara is a hair behind Tendulkar, or even his equal. But similarly brings extra value to the team with his slip fielding and the extra variety of having a left hander to break up the right handers in the middle order.

Chappell was also in contention, but Lara got the edge being a leftie as mentioned above. Lara also specialized at first slip and with Sobers already at 2nd, was the better fit, though Chappell was the clearly better slipper. Close though.

For my primary team, would still prefer McGrath over Hadlee because I believe he was the better bowler and would compliment Marshall better. Additionally with the other bowlers on the team all being capable with the bat, he isn't that much a liability at no 11.

I always rate Tendulkar, Lara and Chappell (in that order) almost equally with the bat, so no loss with any of the three while the latter 2 brings the additional value in the cordon. Lara further adds variety, while Chappell brings an added bowling option with similar temperament to Tendulkar. Tendulkar still had the best technique of the 3 and is the perfect buffer between Richards and Sobers. So all 3 have their merits.

 

[harsh.ag]

Tendulkar can sell more T-shirts

 

[honestbharani]

Amazing how Tendulkar's endorsements have changed over the years too... From an energy beverage as a teenager to retirement solutions these days..

 

[G.I.Joe]

I still remember the Kapil-Sachin boost ad.

"Boost is the secret of mayanazee"

For a long time I couldn't figure out what mayanazee meant.

 

[aussie]

AUSTRALIA:

Simpson, Hayden, Bradman (c), Ponting, Chappell, Border, Gilchrist, Warne, Lindwall, Lillle, McGrath. 12th man: Miller

ENGLAND:

Hobbs, Hutton (c), Barrington, Hammond, Compton, Stewart, Botham, Larwood, Wardle, Trueman, Snow. 12th man: Pietersen

INDIA:

Gavaskar, Mankad, Dravid (c), Tendulkar, Hazare, Viswanath, Dhoni, Kapil Dev, Zaheer, Prasanna, Gupte. 12th man: Kumble

NEW ZEALAND:

Wright, Turner, Sutcliffe, Williamson, Crowe (c), McCullum, Cairns, Hadlee, Vettori, Bond, Boult, 12th man: JR Reid

PAKISTAN:

S Anwar, H Mohammad, J Miandad, Inzamam, Z Abbas, M Mohmmad, I Khan (c), Latif, W Akram, A Qadir, W Younis. 12th man: S Akhtar

SOUTH AFRICA:

Smith (c), Richards, Amla, G Pollock, Kallis, De Villiers, Procter, S Pollock, Tayfield, Steyn, Donald. 12th man: Faulkner

SRI LANKA:

Atapattu, Jayasuriya, Jayawardene (c), A De Silva, Sangakkara, Samaraweera, Mathews, Vaas, Malinga, Herath, Muralitharan. 12th man: S De Silva

WEST INDIES:

Hunte, Greenidge, Richards, Headley, Lara, Sobers (c), Dujon, Marshall, Holding, Roberts, Ambrose, 12th man: Gibbs

ZIMBABWE:

Campbell, G Flower, Goodwin, B Davidson, Houghton (c), A Flower, Johnson, Fletcher, Curran, Steak, P Strang: 12th man: A Pycroft/J Traicos

 

[Red]

Today's effort. Bit slow at work today, year 12s are just doing shirt signings!

Australia
Trumper
Morris
Bradman *
G.Chappell
Miller
Harvey
Gilchrist +
Davidson
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
12th- O'Reilly

England
Hobbs
Hutton *
Hammond
May
Compton
Botham
Knott *
Larwood
Laker
Trueman
12th- SF Barnes

West Indies
Greenidge
Headley
V.Richards *
Lara
Walcott
Sobers
Dujon +
Marshall
Holding
Ambrose
Gibbs
12th- Roberts

India
Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Hazare
Mankad
Kapil *
Kirmani +
Zaheer
Srinath
Chandra
12th- Bedi

South Africa
Richards
Smith *
Kallis
Pollock
Nourse
DeVilliers +
Faulkner
Procter
Tayfield
Steyn
Donald
12th- Shaun Pollock

 

[The Sean]

England
Hobbs
Hutton *
Hammond
May
Compton
Botham
Knott *
Larwood
Laker
Trueman
12th- SF Barnes

That England side is very, very strong, but I reckon even they would ask out of fairness to be allowed an 11th on field player.

 

[Pratters]

India All Time XI

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid (c)
Tendulkar
Hazare
Kapil Dev
Engineer
Zaheer
Srinath
Prasanna
Chandra

Want to put Laxman in the team but so difficult to slot him in. Probably ahead of Hazare. Also want to see Pataudi captain the team!

 

[Pratters]

INDIA:

Gavaskar, Mankad, Dravid (c), Tendulkar, Hazare, Viswanath, Dhoni, Kapil Dev, Zaheer, Prasanna, Gupte. 12th man: Kumble

Nah. Would prefer Engineer or Kirmani. Never felt comfortable with Dhoni's batting outside Asia in tests.

 

[aussie]

India All Time XI

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid (c)
Tendulkar
Hazare
Kapil Dev
Engineer
Zaheer
Srinath
Prasanna
Chandra

Want to put Laxman in the team but so difficult to slot him in. Probably ahead of Hazare. Also want to see Pataudi captain the team!

# 6 is too high for Dev, plus considering you have Sehwag in top 6 makes this IND top order a bit weak for hypothetical match ups versus other ATXI's.

I recall way back in the days legend elder Indian poster SJS gave compelling cases why Viswanath & Gupte had to make an IND ATXI & i reckon if I could find his posts - they would still resonate.

Nah. Would prefer Engineer or Kirmani. Never felt comfortable with Dhoni's batting outside Asia in tests.

Indeed Dhoni's batting outside of Asia would be an issue - but i don't think Enginner or Kirmani would necessary give more consistent runs than Dhoni in such conditions. A IND ATXI would struggle overseas in general vs full strength AUS/ENG/WI/SA/NZ ATXI sides anyway - just like IND have for majority of its test history.

They key for a IND ATXI would be dominating at home vs those teams by unleashing their legendary spinners on dustbowls.